Heatwave13's coming back to the track.....

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i do depth jumps immediately after squats myself. its an idea i got from a sports science friend who helped train the Munster rugby team. i dont know the theory behind it but in my head it makes sense. do you have any theory on it yourself?

Also a recent idea i picked up on from an american thrower trained by poliquin is to do squat jump with a low weight as the first exercise even before cleans. i havent tried it yet but apparently the thrower could actually feel much stronger on PC soon after starting these squat jump (his name was jud leger or something. went to 3x olympics. last was 2000 @ 40yrs old)

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Jo, I read about depth jumps in a Barry Ross article. I don’t have any theory about the why’s and how-to of it. Maybe I should look into it a little and I’m sure there has to be a reason for it being used by a lot of people. In his article, Ross describes his training plan (which includes depth jump from varying heights) but, rather than squats, he advocates the deadlift. Overall, I’m probably partial to the deadlift myself due to it being a little bit more natural for me. I don’t really have a true “squatter” body, if you know what I’m saying. Plus, the deadlift is easier when I’m lifting alone since I don’t need any spotters. I’m just doing a little experiment by changing to the squat–although, if I feel like it, I’ll abandon it at any time and replace it with deads, especially if my knee continues to act up.

As far as squat jumps with a low weight before cleans, I may try that. I have done something before that relates to this that I found by accident. Once, I did some overhead squats with a fairly heavy weight (well, it was heavy for me) then, immediately after I racked the bar, I went over and just grabbed my #2 gripper to just kill some to between sets, and I slammed it closed with ease. It felt easier for some reason. I don’t know if there is any rhyme or reason to that, but it sure got my attention.

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I didn’t have much of a workout today, which is a shame since it was around 70 degrees outside. I just did a few sets of military presses and some grip work. I’m aching today, especially my left knee. I have to actually unfold my leg when sitting around my office today. I was limping around at work and people were staring at me. Women were staring at me (not because I’m so good looking, either), kids were looking funny at me. My quads are’a killing me too. Maybe it’s because I did something different with heavy squats, something I ain’t used to doing. Different range of motion from deadlifts. Depth jumps may be contributing to the pain, those are new to the mix as well.

The thang is, is that when I workout and get all warmed up, my knee feels fine, slightly less mobile, but overall fine. All the pain is on my left side; maybe it goes all the way back to when I got hit by a car as a young child? The car did hit me on my left side, after all. That happened way back in about 1981, I was running/walking to school, sprinting down this sidewalk that was slightly downhill when, suddenly, this woman pulled out of an apartment complex in one of those big, long station wagons. Remember those? She couldn’t see around the entrance, she drove through, we collided, and I ended up on her windshield battered and bruised.

I’m a tough, rugged cracker and I will get through this. My body just needs to adjust from basic GPP to the rigors of speed work and heavier lifting. I’m resiliant and I will see it through, but always monitoring my body.

Have a good one…

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Hope everything is going as planned in your training. Regarding your knee pain, go to www.egoscue.com and try the exercises for knee pain. I would be interested to know if there was any relief in the pain and/or stiffness.

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Jumpman, I’ll try those stretches and see what happens after a while.

Yesteday I did some overhead presses, power cleans, deadlifts and depth jumps—three sets of three on each.

Today, I just did a few sets of squats. I started light and worked my way up with sets of two reps. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make it out to the track yesterday (pouring rain) or today, but at least I’m able to lift.

later…

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Of course I’m glad to be off from work today, but that does not mean that this is a real “day off” because I do have plenty to do. I’m off today, but, so are the kids, and my sweet little wifey is in Texas on a business trip, so it’s me, the boys, laundry, dishes, cooking, etc. It’s tough to find time to squeeze in some training for folks who are in my shoes. After talking with others, scouring the internet for training ideas, and from personal experience, I have learned couple of principles that I follow might help many guys/gals like me, people who work a normal job, have the family and the house to take care of, has a social life, and still wants to train. It can be done.

Have ya’ll ever heard of “Pareto’s Law.” This Italian economist discovered the 80-20 Rule-- which means that 80 percent of your results comes from 20 percent of what you do. In some team sports, you will find that 20 percent of your athletes produce 80 percent of the results, the tackles and the points. In training, 20 percent of your program will get you to that 80 percent mark. That other 80, in most cases, gets you closer to that moment when you produce a 100 percent effort. That could mean one’s personal best lift, throw, or sprint performance.

This idea can be applied by considering a simple question: if, for some reason, you could only train 45 minutes or an hour or two a week, what would you do? Would you warmup? Do stretching, do speed work, lift? Every once in a while, I’ll have a week like this where stuff just isn’t going my way. Extra work can effect training, having to be places in the evenings can effect training, staying up late with sick children can effect training.

As a lifter/sprinter/jumper, I answered this question with a couple sets of overhead squat and overhead presses for the lifting and a few hard, quality reps on the track if I chose to work on speed. I could probably hold “80 percent” on that schedule. Well, at least for a while. Thankfully, those type of weeks don’t happen often, but I just had one this past week where it was just so hard to get out due to “stuff” coming up. Another idea is to just focus on the basics and forget assistance work. What gives the most bang for the buck? Squats? Power cleans? Overhead squats? Plyos?

Today, spread throughout the day I managed to do:

-overhead military presses–several sets of two with 70kg, no biggie.

–power cleans–3 sets of 3 with 87kg (87kg??, I know it’s a weird weight, but I use a combo of plates and that’s how the weight comes out)–smooth, quick, felt good.

–Back squats–several sets of 3 reps. Still getting back into the feel of squats after some time away from doing them. Start easy, work up to about 325 lbs. Please, don’t laugh, soon enough, I’ll be back to full strength…

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im not a track athlete or a weighlifter. i play a team sport that requires speed strength and endurance.
so taking all that into account best bang for my buck is in order
1 - hill sprints + flexibility work
2 - med ball accels
3 - cleans (full squat not power)
4 - push press

i think a track athlete could see good gains using these 4 alone also however.

its a thing i’ve been meaning to ask you though is why you never use hill sprints or med ball work?
i think these two have brought abput the biggest improvement in my sprinting thus far.
did you ever buy the gpp dvd? it really is priceless and it really encourages hill work.

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Occasionally, I do some hill work (slight incline for 60m). When I can’t get out to a track, I do these out in my neighborhood. My street has a slight incline and I have marked off 60m up a slight incline that I’ll run. On another street, I have 100m marked off in a flat stretch of road. It’s not on a track but it’s better than nothing when I’m stuck at home. If you scroll back a bit in my blog, you’ll see where I have some hill work included. As for medicine ball work, I have no idea what that is. Is that where you take some pills and then go out and throw a ball around? :slight_smile:

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ha ha…
sometimes i think you need some pills to get the motivation to train when its 2 below outside!!

med ball acceleration drilss are where you get a 5kg ball and basically throw it as far as you can and sprint after it. the throw forces you into a deep angle that is perfect for block starts/accelerations. you can do a whole host of different types like squat jump and throw, double squat jump and throw, etc etc

they are like a more specific form of plyometric movements. very tough workout. 3 x 10 of these and you’ll be out i promise

if you have the bucks to spare id really recommend you get the gpp dvd and tailor the program it outlines to suit you. it has to be the greatest training aid available.
it would fill in the holes in your training. stuff like a’s and b’s, ballistic and dynamic warmups, hills, med ball work, hurdle hip mobility.
its after turning me from a useless athlete into a mediocre one. hopefully if i stick at it long enough i may actually count myself as an athlete full stop.

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Once again, I didn’t make it out to a track today. It’s been pouring rain all day–hard, frog-stranglin’ rain. So, I just had a brief but very tough bout with overhead squats, which will work you over if you use a heavy enough weight. I loaded the bar up to 82kg’s or 181 lbs. and did 4 sets of 4; plus, I threw in a few overhead presses and I worked on my grippers all day. Control, balance, strength; overhead squats will make you very strong and I don’t know why more people don’t include them into their workouts. Maybe it’s because they’re so hard to do and leave almost no room for error.

I will try to make it out to resume my speed work sessions when the weather breaks.

Thank you for reading and for you’re continued support…

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No doubt overheads are a good exercise but i always found it harder on my upper body keeping the weight locked out, than on my lower body. Its all about what you said earlier “bang for your buck” and i get a good overall workout from OH’s but not as good as in a clean and push press you know. I might start to include them again if i start to do snatch when i get my shoes.

Heatwave it seems to me like you are making the same mistake i was making for a whole year. You are training hard no doubt and very strong but you are not running as much as lifting. I know you have a sore knee and bad weather to deal with but if you dont run at least 3x a week i find it hard to see how you will get faster. For me it was impossible to get faster when i was lifting all the time.
You must supplement your running with weights, not the other way round.

if you cant get out running then id do plyo’s instead of weights on that particular day.
weights come well down my list of priorities when it comes to getting fast.

You know the point im trying to make?

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I can’t argue with anything you mentioned above. I’m slowly and stubbornly :stuck_out_tongue: changing my mindset from a “iron head” to the weights to supplement track work perspective. Today, I will run some hard reps of 60m followed by a low volume weight workout. What do you (and anyone else) think about timing the reps? Last week, when I first began “speed” work, I timed each of my 60m reps to have a baseline and/or something to monitor my progress against. How frequently do you all check in on the times in practice?

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in general i think timing speed reps is a bad idea. I do time tempo runs however but thats for a different purpose. to make sure im going @ 80% or so

when you’re a beginner like me you have all these bad habits like chopping off your stride, tightening up, being flat footed etc etc. timing yourself or racing against a peer will not allow you to correct these problems. you will just tighten up even more. in the short term tightening may improve your speed more than running relaxed but long term (and everything in sprinting is long term) you will suffer.

i havent timed my self since early december in a sprint. I dont know if im any faster now but i do know that im more relaxed. I dont give myself a headache everytime i sprint or clench my teeth so hard i think my jaw is going to lock

Anyway now that you’ve decided to take a more “running” approach to your training i think you should start to lay out a program for it. Its all well and good going out tonight running 60m @ 100% but it doesnt address your weaknesses. things like acceleration, getting the deep angles needed for proper mechanics.
These are things that i know the answer to but only by watching the gpp dvd.

I really would recommend you get the gpp dvd off the store here. It really does answer all your questions and lays out a 7 week training plan that if you stick to it, will improve your speed noticeably.
I think this is the third time i’ve recommended it to you! Sorry about that but its just because its so so so good…

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A couple of possible scenarios for the next 7-8 weeks–

Setup #1
Day 1–speed -90% or higher intensity reps of 30-60m/weights/plyo
Day 2–tempo–65-70% reps of 100-120m
Day 3-off
Day 4–speed/weights/plyo
Day 5–tempo
Day 6–off

Setup #2
Day 1–speed/weights/plyo
Day 2–tempo
Day 3–speed/weights/plyo
Day 4–tempo
Day 5–speed/weights/plyo
Day 6–tempo
Day 7–off

With no competition right now, I could probably get away with 3 speed/weight days per week. These are just a couple of ideas.

I have very little predictability in my life right now, so, as often happens, I’m planning on working out then something comes up. Work late, someone needs me to go pick up the kids, someone at my kid’s school needs me to do something, household chores, etc. Like today for example, I planned on going out to the track but I’m stuck babysitting because something unexpected came up for my wife. Now, If I’m lucky, I’ll just have to go run out in the neighborhood streets after 8:00pm tonight in the dark. I basically just have to wing it everyday…fortunately for me, I have always been able to progress on little training and could get away with lots of “off” days without losing strength or ability.

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Severe knee pain has caused me to limp around for three days now following my last weights/speed/plyos workout. I’m not sure which of these three components is causing the pain. When my knee lets up, I’m going to eliminate plyos and just go back to deadlifts, overhead presses and speed sessions.

During the workout, when I’m nice and warmed up, my knee feels fine, but it’s after the fact that hurts. Like when I get home and sit down for a while or when I first wake up in the morning. That’s when it really hurts. I’m going to eliminate squats and plyos and go back to the simple deadlift/press weight session along with my speed workout, see how it feels, then if it still hurts like this, I’m going to the doctor before I really hurt myself. I hate this because during the last two speed workouts I’ve had hand timed 60m reps consistently right between 7.0-7.2, I’d hate to have to end it now, but if my knee keeps this up, I may have to forget about my comeback experiment.

I have a sneakin’ suspicion that this goes back to when I severed my cartilidge in that knee about 10 years ago.

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Yikes! Definitely the right move to see the doc. :frowning: Be a drag to have to abandon the comeback. Maybe he can fix what ails ya.

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I’ll see how it feels when I drop the plyos from the program, then I’ll go through a few more workouts to see how it feels. Who knows, it may just be an adjustment period since I’m just now starting the speed phase. But, if I’m still limping around, I’ll make a doctor appointment and ask to be referred to a sports med.

I was lookin’ back through my training log, which is a notebook I keep where I have written down every workout I’ve done for the last two years. I discovered that I haven’t done the bench press since 1-14-05. That’s a long time. My max was up at about 275 lbs.(I’ve never been a good bencher) but, really, I mostly shun bench press since I don’t see what good it does me and, since I’m just now recovering from my rotator cuff problem in my right shoulder. I thought, “why not, let’s load up some weight an’ see what I can do.”

My shoulder still hurts a little, but ironically, overhead presses don’t seem to give any adverse reactions. I approached this very easily and started the first set with a hunnert and 70 pounds. I felt a little twinge in that shoulder. Next, I loaded the bar up to two hunnert pounds and did a few reps. I quit on 225–my shoulder said “no more, boy” so I stopped with a sharp pain. Maybe my shoulder ain’t fully healed yet. But, that’s OK since I’m not really a bencher anyway. I’ll just stick with the overhead stuff for now.

Have a good one…

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Owch! It’s been a whole week since I tried to get through a speed workout, you know, because of my ailin’ left knee. During the interim, I had a few awesome weight workouts with no adverse effects on the knee. So, today, after work, I went over to the track to get into some speed. It was a perfect day for speed; crystal clear blue sky, temps in the low 60’s, light breeze.

Unfortunately, that’s about all that went right for me in the workout. My warmup went really well, but when I ran my first rep of 60m, I knew I was in trouble. Serious pain right below my knee cap, you know what I’m saying? My times were about .5 slower than a couple weeks ago, when I ran my best rep of 6.95 for 60m. Today, I ran a few very lame reps and I timed three of them and managed times of 7.57, 7.55, and 7.51. That’s not really any good, I know (please don’t laugh at my slowness), but the real pisser is how I felt in the hours following the workout. It hurts to just walk around, walking up stairs, and even sitting if I keep my legs in the same position for too long. It’s a sharp pain that comes in waves. I can literally feel the pain throbbing and pulsating.

So, unfortunately I’m probably going to have to abandon my speed work on the track for the time being, until I make a fricken doctors appointment to see what’s going on. Hopefully, they’ll refer to a sports medicine place. I do still plan on keeping my weight workouts since they don’t bother my leg at all. I’ll just have to come up with something else to keep conditioning up to par.

Alright, ya’ll have a good one…and thank you for your continued support in my time of suffering.

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Didnt want to have to suggest that course of action but it seemed the only sensible option. Keep up the weights and flexibility work and see a doc. Once you get it sorted you’ll be able to continue from pretty much where you left off…
Good Luck

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I had a similar experience as you regarding knee pain.

About 3 months after I started my comeback in the fall of 2003, I started developing severe pain under my left knee cap. The pain got so bad, I could barely walk or climb stairs. I tried taking a couple of weeks off, but after 1 run, the pain was back, so I decided to stop running for several months.

I found that the problem had to do with the surface I was running/training on. I switched from running/training on the road and a hard track surface to the trails and a softer track. I try to limit my track sessions to 2 per week and substitute others with hills or grass. I also avoid training in spikes when possible and were flats with good support. For me, that formula seems to work as the pain is pretty much gone now, but if I over do it (i.e. run on the road or train on the track too often), the pain comes back.

I guess my body is telling me that I can’t subject it to the same type of punishment I did 20 years ago :(.

Food for thought…