Having too much upper body strength!

[quarkthedark]

@Juggler

I was going to say something like Nap’s post, only he said it better. I was going to say that kids used to play and now they practice. They don’t do enough just throwing throwing, just tossing it around w/ your friends, or not throwing that day at all. Athletes who aren’t shoved through a prescribed w/o (including pushing themselves through what they think they “should” do) usually make adjustments without even realizing it. They don’t “feel like” throwing or running today, so they don’t. They do what their body “feels like” doing, and often that’s the best guide. Nap’s post, while good, is kind of just regimenting what we used to do as kids just playing. If I were to put it in a nutshell – throw more, pitch less. Of course, if there are already shoulder problems, that’s different, I’m talking preventive here.

EXACTLY. Kids should be kids, not works in progress. I don’t know how many potentially great athletes have been ruined through early burnout. How many of the “greats” have been training seriously since they were 8 or younger? Most just played.

[rpower]

Real Sports on HBO did a great piece on this topic. Very interesting and covers it all. Search it out it’s certainly worth the viewing and showing parents.

[nap]

@Juggler

Throws will range up to 400 ft.? I can’t remember the last time I saw a MLB outfielder throw 400 ft! Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it. How many athletes you have known who could?

Hi Juggler,
Different forms of long toss (long and loose) (with a hump, not a flat trajectory) can reach distances well over 400 ft. MLB outfielders and pitchers can extend long toss from foul pole to foul pole, even at the college level.

[nap]

@TNT

While nap’s program sounds great for a college age ball player or above, the girl being discussed here is 11 years old. Thanks juggler.

TNT

Weather an athlete is 11 or 30 the demands on the body to throw are the same no preparation or adaptation great risk for injury, and or little development.

[nap]

@rpower

Real Sports on HBO did a great piece on this topic. Very interesting and covers it all. Search it out it’s certainly worth the viewing and showing parents.

Hi RPOWER,
What was the name of the special? I would like to show my athletes and parents.

[TNT]

@nap

Weather an athlete is 11 or 30 the demands on the body to throw are the same no preparation or adaptation great risk for injury, and or little development.

Could you re-write this please. It doesn’t make sense to me.

TNT

[rpower]

Nap,

Bob Costas hosts the program, go to HBO real sports, I’m not sure of the title of that segment.
The focus was on all the young athletes that have had “Tommy John” surgery, because of over-use injuries and over throwing. They interviewed MLB players who stated that if they throw as much as out youth do today, as a result of negligent coaches, they’d be out of work and finished.

[nap]

@rpower

Nap,

Bob Costas hosts the program, go to HBO real sports, I’m not sure of the title of that segment.
The focus was on all the young athletes that have had “Tommy John” surgery, because of over-use injuries and over throwing. They interviewed MLB players who stated that if they throw as much as out youth do today, as a result of negligent coaches, they’d be out of work and finished.

Thanks for the info.

[TNT]

@nap

Hi Juggler,
Different forms of long toss (long and loose) (with a hump, not a flat trajectory) can reach distances well over 400 ft. MLB outfielders and pitchers can extend long toss from foul pole to foul pole, even at the college level.

nap
Assuming 100m down the foul line, wouldn’t that make it about 465’ from foul post to foul post? I don’t imagine you have a video of that. I would like to see the technique involved.

TNT

[TNT]

@kelly_clinevell

Have their been any studies comparing the rate of shoulder injuries among Central American kids that play year round to North American kids who don’t play during the winter? I realize there could be other contributing factors but it would be interesting.
TNT, why were you curious about the number of pullups she could do?

Don’t try to look at 1 element from a different culture and try to examine it in isolation. Doesn’t work. You always have to consider all the factors that are at work here.

RE: chin-ups/pull-ups. Pull-ups have been called “upper body deadlifts”. They involve all the muscles that are used to decelerate the arm when throwing. Usually young ball players that practice alot but train very little have poor posterior upper body development and are pretty poor at both chins and pull-ups. As she grows, keep her working these. All different grips and rope climbing and tug-o-war with the team. Kids love that at the end of practice. Good work and good luck. Keep us informed.

TNT

[kelly_clinevell]

@TNT

Don’t try to look at 1 element from a different culture and try to examine it in isolation. Doesn’t work. You always have to consider all the factors that are at work here.

RE: chin-ups/pull-ups. Pull-ups have been called “upper body deadlifts”. They involve all the muscles that are used to decelerate the arm when throwing. Usually young ball players that practice alot but train very little have poor posterior upper body development and are pretty poor at both chins and pull-ups. As she grows, keep her working these. All different grips and rope climbing and tug-o-war with the team. Kids love that at the end of practice. Good work and good luck. Keep us informed.

TNT

I realize there could be other contributing factors (that’s why I said there could be other contributing factors) but my point was if those players that throw year round don’t have a higher rate of shoulder injury then it would be helpful to figure out why that is. I haven’t heard either way. I do believe that throwing often with a goal of teaching proper technique does not make an overuse injury unavoidable if the decelerators are being trained. I would go so far as to say that throwing often with that goal would make injury less likely.

In regards to pullups/chinups: That has been an emphasis for her (for the reasons already mentioned). Right now she typically does three sets of pulls per session. Each set consists of her doing two pulls and then I assist her on the concentric and she finishes each set with two controlled eccentrics. She’s done 4 in a set before but can’t always duplicate that and I don’t want her going to failure every time she trains. She’s 5’1" 105 so I believe her strength level is good for her age and size. One thing that I emphasize is not letting the shoulder capsule itself stretch while in the bottom of the hang. I believe that allowing the stretch here could negate some of what’s gained in performing the movement.

Tug of war at the end of practice - that’s a great idea. I’m not the head coach but I’ve kind of gotten the unofficial S&C label so maybe I can work this in with practice ending races. Thanks for the idea.

[TNT]

Kelly,

Get some bungee cord material and tie it to the chinning bar. Have her stand in the bungee and do her chin-ups. Use 2 bungees if you have to.
6-8’ of 1/4 bungee should work for 11 yr. old.

Medicine balls are great for just about everything. If you can’t afford medicine balls, make up a bunch of sandbags. I prefer sandbags because they work grip strength more
and I like ghetto training. 5-30 lbs.

Get some truck tires and have them do tire flippin’ relay races. Then have them beat the livin’ crap out of the tires with a heavy steel bar
(5-10 lbs.). Core training???

And finish off the practice with a good game of murder ball.

I do 2 hours of laughs and giggles and the next day they can’t figure out what hit them.

TNT