I totally agree.
Secondly I noticed in the other thread that you did a gym session last saturday instead of your usual sprint session. Hopefully that was a one time deal. Sacrificing sprint workouts in order to fit in your gym work would be a serious mistake.
I’m not in any mad panic to start doing weight right now, as you guys have said it’s close to outdoor season and whatever I’m doing seems to be working in one way or another.
I’ll make sure I do extra med ball and pylometrics to try to boost my explosive power a bit. I can always go down the track and do bounds over hurdles between sessions.
And that was a one off martijn, I only went to the gym because I missed the track session. And I would always preference the Saturday sessions over the gym as they are normally more speed orientated so I need to make sure I’m doing those ones!
I would argue that you wont improve your explosive power if you are not improving your ability to produce force eg max strength. For me squats followed by a posterior chain exercise twice a week after your speed work will provide a different stimulus and benefit your power. i would go 2-3 x 5-6 squats followed by RDL 2-3 6-8 this wouldnt take too long and best bang for buxh imo
Do you think it’s necessary to do the RDL on both sessions? What about doing it once a week esp. when you don’t do regular sprints and do hill sprints in your speed session. And also if you are squatting deep it will recruit the posterior chain to a good effect as well I think. Also, how heavy do you go on the RDLs after already going heavy on the squats. I go to 5-6 reps with moderate to heavy weight but I keep a strict form and explode on my reps. I was wondering how you or anyone else do it?
guys, no one is disputing the benefits of increased force and im sure david now understands that need.
However, as has been noted now is not the time to be adding this into a programme with the outdoor season upon us.
But surely adding a few light sets of squats wont do too much harm. It would be light so would tax his CNS too much.
if weights are seen as too risky .Maybe alan wells style circuits type tarining could provide a strength stimilus. soem push up pull up sit ups etc
Bit of a thread resurrection, but it made sense to keep all this together. I now have access to a new strength and conditioning facility at a local university, including Olympic bumper weights, squat racks and weight platforms etc. at my disposal.
I want to get myself a ‘proper’ gym plan sorted so I can make use of this new facility, I have almost 16 weeks until my first outdoor competition, and I plan on doing 2 gym sessions a week during this period. I just spent the last 3 hours watching the CF Weights for Speed series, although the bit I needed most i.e. sets, reps and percentages or any sort of guide on an overall weight plan was left out at the end which was slightly disappointing.
So I still need advice on where to start with that. Do I just go for a basic 5x5 program, or try to be a bit more clever and go for higher reps with low percentages in the earlier weeks and build up to lower reps and set with higher percentages and try to give it a proper structure?
I’d keep the lifting low volume and low to intermediate intensity (maybe 3x5 at 70-80% or 2x8 at 60-70% of 1rm for upper body and even less for lower body) and be very careful not to put on too much weight or drain your CNS. When I started lifting heavier a few years ago, I got stronger and bigger, but also got slower and picked up an Achilles tendinopathy which I’m still struggling with two years later. I think my achilles was not able to handle the extra weight (76 as opposed to 72kg) and the increased strength certainly didn’t make me any faster. I’ve just spent the last two months losing 5kg again hoping that this will allow me to engage in sprint training without aggrevating my Achilles too much.
Funny you should mention about the Achilles problems robin…I’ve increased an almost identical amount in weight over the last 3 months, and did notice some discomfort in my left Achilles for a couple of weeks, so the weight was probably a factor in that. Although I found that the cause of this was over-reaching during lower intensity runs, so I just reduced my stride length and lifted my knees more which seemed to fix it over the course of another couple of weeks.
Trying to use what Charlie said about keeping my sessions under my CNS capacity (which will need some fine tuning once I get started) I’ve started off with higher reps and low percentages. And then as the weeks go on, I’m gradually dropping the reps to allow for the increased intensity. After this 6 week period I should have a good idea of what I’m capable of, and I can then plan out the next block of 4 weeks, which will be more of a max strength phase and contain much lower reps, but higher percentages on the lifts.
Week 1: Testing, pick a manageable weight for each exercise and go for max reps so I can calculate my 1RM
Week 2: 3x10 at 40%
Week 3: 3x8 at 50%
Week 4: 2x8 at 60%
Week 5: 3x6 at 60%
Week 6: 3x5 at 65%
The reason for using this tapered plan was to give me time to practice my technique during the early weeks, while the weight is lighter, before increasing the weight from week 7 onwards. But once I’m through this practice/testing phase I will be going for 1-3 reps for up to 5 sets, as this should reduce hypertrophy and CNS stress.
I was also considering doing my weights after track sessions, so I will always have a full day of recovery until the next track session. As I worry that if I put my gym work between track sessions, it won’t give me time to recover as I’ll burn myself out in the gym?
Also, on each of the 2 days per week in the gym, I was going to do: Bench Press, Squats and Power Clean on 1 day, and then Deadlift, Upright Rows and Glute Bridge on the other day. Thoughts?
I was wondering if I might be better off picking a series of maybe 4 exercises that I could do the same on both days?
Probably option B, less chances of having stiffness every week.
The progression up to week 6 looks ok, but I wouldn’t increase intensity from there. Also, the closer you get to your 1rm the higher the CNS stress. Five sets of 3 reps is much more CNS draining than 3 sets of 5 reps which, in turn, is more draining than 2 sets of 8 reps.
I ran my best times when lifting twice a week doing only bench (3 sets of 3-6 reps at 75-85%) deadlifts (3x3 at 65-75%) and pullups (2x8-12 reps). Anything more than that seems to have made me a better powerlifter (the reason why I increased my lifting was because I was preparing for powerlifting competitions) but a slower sprinter.
I would also check calorie intake to keep weight gain at bay. Gaining 4kg in 3 months is a lot and puts more stress on your body while running.
By introducing weight lifting without reducing the sprint training your overall workload has increased dramatically and fairly suddenly, which can be dangerous. Add to this a heavier frame to carry around the track and you are significantly increasing the likelihood of injuries.
PS: I notice you ran for Oxford City. I used to compete for OUAC a few years ago.
Do you mean because if I do the same exercises on both days it will keep my muscles ‘ready’ for the next session?
So if I were to pick a group of exercises I could repeat each time, which ones and how many would you choose?
Squat, bench and dead seem to be the core lifts. Especially bench as I that’s something I should always be able to do, even if my legs are tired.
I should add that I did start using Creatine just before my winter training phase as I do each year, which will contribute to a good chunk of that weight gain (water weight). But I normally come off it before outdoor season starts because my competitions are too close together to periodise my intake properly between meets.
So 75% seems to be a good middle figure to aim for with the lifts then, slightly higher on the bench and slightly lower on the main lifts?
Small world! Yer I ran for Oxford City for a few years and now train and compete for Radley.
[QUOTE=DavidG;249240]
Do you mean because if I do the same exercises on both days it will keep my muscles ‘ready’ for the next session? Most times if I only squat once a week, I will have soreness and tightness the next squat session. If I squat twice a week, I have no issues with tightness.
So if I were to pick a group of exercises I could repeat each time, which ones and how many would you choose? Yes. Bench/Incline, Squat, Rdl/Hypers, Lat pd/Row
Squat, bench and dead seem to be the core lifts. Especially bench as I that’s something I should always be able to do, even if my legs are tired. Be careful with the deadlifts past gpp.
Don’t be afraid to lift heavy weights. Depending on the athlete heavy weights could do good things. With how skinny and weak I am right now when I return back to training I will be lifting heavy weights.
Hiey guys… It is years ago I read on Mo Greene home page (doesnt exist) that he recomended - less weight and more reps is much much better. I do not have any clue about what less weight and more reps is for him, but I know that his max bp is 365lb. And I do not think doing many reps will lead to increasing PB. What do you think about what Maurice Greene meant?
Mo has changed, as has squatting. I remember a couple/few years ago when people showed videos of 1/4 squats and people here laughed at it. But it turns out that ATG/half squats exceed the ROM needed in sprinting (including starts) and 1/4 squats allow more force to be developed:
I’m not so sure about this. If you have a look at the T-Nation articles Charlie wrote for, a number of times he emphasised that his athletes always squatted below parallel to activate the hamstrings.
You don’t lift weights to mimic sprinting technique. You do it to strengthen muscles.
You could argue that most stretching and mobility work exceeds the rom required for sprinting, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have benefit for sprinting…
Yeah. You don’t even need to lift to get faster. It’s pretty trivial anyway you cut it. Unless you’re just going too high of intensity and too high of volume in the weight room, then I think it becomes a problem. You’re better off focusing more on stretching and decreasing your own agonist/antagonist resistance, which will allow you to get into better positions easier, and increase your ability to relax.