I’m 21 now and the injury happened last spring when I was 20. So its been a little over a year since the tear. According to my doctor and therapist, I’m back at 100% and can take part in any training that I wish.
Thomas is not entirely off base. More specifically though if you were to identify some qualities of the elite level bobsled athletes you generally find these common traits.
- Body weight around 210 (+ or - 10lbs)
- Power clean of about 140 kilo’s
- Squat 450+ lbs
- 30m of about 3.8 (standing start 1/2 meter behind start eye)
While bench press used to be a testing parameter for the US team, it has recently been deleted (about 4 years ago). Lower body power is much more important and most athletes get ample “upper body” strength from the Olympic lifts and their variations. Bench is still included in the basic strength programs however.
I’d agree that there is a fair amount of athleticism required for the sport, but I think that is generally a characteristic that is required for all elite levels of competition. Loading into the sled requires a pretty simple crossover step to get on a bunk (essentially a bumper) and some decent body awareness to get oneself into riding position in the shortest amount of time possible. I think you’d have to be a motor moron if you can’t pick it up in a few weeks of practice pushing. Other than that the push is a very liner movement. There are a variety of pushing techniques but it basically comes down to the bigger, stronger, faster athletes.
By the way, the reason most athletes weigh around 210 is for an advantage at the start. The sled + passengers (4-man crew) are only allowed to weigh 630 kilo’s at max. Since most bobsleds weigh around 225 kilo’s then the athletes need to be as close to the left over max weight as possible. Essentially you want a heavy crew pushing a light sled as opposed to a light crew pushing a heavy sled. After the start it’s basically driving and physics.
Skeleton athletes are leaning more toward the pure sprint athletes. They still need a solid strength and power base, but their body weight is usually in the 160 – 180 lbs range (males). Pretty much those athletes that are generally too small to be bobsledders. The development for a skeleton athlete takes a little longer just because everyone is a pilot and it does take a little maturity on the ice to be successful (the same with a bobsled pilot). A “natural” might pick up driving in a few years, but most are looking at 4-6 years of driving experience before being able to compete at the elite level for both sports.
The off season training for both sports consists of short sprint training and Olympic style weightlifting. Unfortunately the actual sliding cannot be done until tracks open in around mid-October each year – usually about a month before the first schedule World Cup race. As Thomas mentioned, there is a dry-land push track in Lake Placid, NY (possibly an ice track in the next few years). Additionally there is an ice push track in Calgary which usually opens for training around July each summer.
And yes eroszag… I do have a little to do with each sport.
Hope that helps.
Excellent post
Cod, anything else you need to know? PM me if you want.
Cod,
A torn Achilles isn’t a career ending injury by any means. Christoph Langen (Germany) torn his Achilles during the summer of 96’ (water skiing) and came back in 98’ to win the gold medal in 4-man bobsled at the Nagano Winter Olympics. He retired this past season, 03-04, & is arguably considered one of the most successful pilots in the world to date. He retired at the age of 40 (I believe)!!
tnx , interesting…but I assume that the peculiar position of the push in the skeleton makes it abit more challengig than bobsled pushing…I love bobsledding since I was a kid and watched ddr bobsleds on tv…next winter I want to attend a driving course in cortina or saint moritz (I’m from Italy), and hope to join the bobsledding world soon!keep posting …ciaoo
Cortina D’Ampezzo…Oh how I miss that part of Italy. I’ve got to get back there. Next time for pleasure not sport.
I’m not really big enough to be a bobsledder (at 168lbs), so my goal is to tryout for the USA Skeleton at some point in the future. I started this thread before I realized that the weight “recommendations” for bobsledders was in the low 200s.
Skeleton start is a little akward at first, but with practice it becomes easy. Think about when you where a little kid sledding down a snow covered hill on a flexible flyer. Same kind of start without the obvious important details to mechancics and galoshes.
Bobsleigh athletes come in all shapes and sizes, however the elite men are around 6’ 215 lb. give or take and inch or ten pounds.
If you have world class speed and high levels of strength and power, particulary in the lower body, you could become a national push athlete in a matter of 6 weeks or less with daily practice.
I wish I could say I remember doing that as a little kid, but I can’t for two reasons:
- I live in the boonies of Georgia where hills don’t exist.
- I haven’t seen snow since I was a mere 3 years old.
As far as my training goes, I’m just getting back into the weight room and I’ve gradually worked my way up to were I am now. For the next few weeks, I’m just going to finish up the base explosive and strength programs from Colgate. While I’m finishing that workout over the next 3 weeks, I’ll be designing my own weight program.
I’m also doing some agility and speed drills 2 days a week. More agility than speed though so I can make sure I can change directions fast since I’m playing college baseball next year. I’m hoping to get started on some hardcore speed work later this summer (around July).
Thomas,
Although I’d agree with most of your points, I think there’s a definite difference between bobsledding in the 80’s and early 90’s compared to the current team. I think you’d find the physical characteristics of these guys a little more challenging. Of the 12-13 athletes that competed of the world cup tour this past season, 11 had either a D1 track and field or football background. As exception to the “rule” would be US pilot Steve Holcomb who made the national team at 18 years old in 1999. Solid athlete!
So, yes it is possible to “walk on” and make a team, but to be able to compete successfully at an international level is a different story. 6 weeks is pretty modest to learn any sport and I don’t want to down play the level of commitment it takes to be successful. Additionally, one thing to remember about body shapes regarding the sport. It is very important to keep the ballast (weight distribution) of the sled at the lowest point possible (i.e. low center of gravity). So the majority of elite level bobsledders have modest upper bodies compared to their lower body girth. Four “top heavy” athletes would be nightmare considering aerodynamics and would likely be disadvantageous to the driver considering the higher probability of skidding off of corners (probably not the best description, but you should get the drift). Think of a sports car cornering as opposed to a school bus.
Cod - keep in mind the weight recommendations are just that… recommendations. That doesn’t mean you can’t try out for both sports, get your feet wet, slide, and then make a decision as to which you’d prefer to specialize in. At a young age experience is most important. Most of the national team athletes are over 23 years old with an average around 27.
The skeleton push is a little awkward, but as a beginner the most important point is learning how to drive. I don’t care how great of an athlete you are, if you can’t get to the bottom of the hill without bouncing off of every sidewall it doesn’t mean crap. Fast starts begin the race but the finish time is what gets you the medals! Also, a couple of disadvantages of having a large upper body with skeleton… 1. Aerodynamics will likely suck. 2. Your shoulders will take a beating when you are starting to learn to drive. So again, get some exposure and experience to the sports first.
Living in a warm part of the US doesn’t really matter either. 90% of the off-season is dry land (sprints & O. lifts). The only tracks in the US are in Lake Placid, NY and Park City, UT so everyone has to travel to those tracks in mid-October to begin sliding.
Eroszag – if I could make a recommendation, I’d check into the possibility of a driver’s school in Igls, Austria. It’s a much more forgiving track than Cortina and it would better suit a new athlete to develop good driving habits from the start.
That’s all I’ve got for now.
I would love to go up to Lake Placid for one of their camps later this year, but I know I won’t be ready by then. I am gunning to be a part of the USBSF Athlete Recruitment Tour sometime in 2005 or early 2006.
As you can see, I want to make sure I have my body in the physical condition before heading to New York for one of the camps. I would like to be in top physical condition before I head up there so I can focus fully on “learning the sport” (driving, etc.) with no worries about my explosiveness or speed.
Wow, I just noticed on the USBSF website that they have tryouts in some southern states. That’d be much better if I could do that instead of flying to NY.
Cod, my ignorance regarding snow. Good luck, let me know if you need help regarding physical prep.
Slidonice, you’re correct, the athletes now are much better than in the past.
I always felt the US could be more competitive internationally if some of our more elite athletes become involved. The starts would be record breaking.
As far as body type, Pavle (sp) had a large upper body to match his lower body, but Hayes upper body has “shrunk” now that he is driving instead of when he was a push athlete/kick boxer.
Do you think the sport is unattrative to DI track and football players? Does USBSF not want a “suitcase sport” where elite athletes only get involved during an Olympic year?
Heck, if you had more of the top sprinters in the US you could dust off Shimer for one more go at it.
Cod, as long as you are able to spend winters where the tracks are, it’s not a problem. Memebers of the USA World Cup Skeleton team are from New Mexico & Texas.
The skeleton start is definitely an aquired talent. Some can be smokin’ fast standing upright but to sprint w/ your head by your knees (no comments here) is not a natural state.
As for driving, you will either have it or you won’t… this is apparent after a year or so. Some people catch on quicker than others but there is usually a time when it “clicks” & you know where you are in a corner & understand the amount of stearing needed… it is all harder than it looks (to be fast) & unlike most perceptions, it is not out of control. Some people just never get the feel for it & others become World Champions. There is a lot that is sublte with skeleton that isn’t seen by the eye of the audience & the only way to find out if it’s for you is to try. BUT… be prepared for the fact that 98% of the people are not great to start with & you have to give it time to settle in.
As for bobsleigh… same thing. I have seen great brakemen try driving & they have hands of stone & can’t get the “feel” of the sled. Pierre Leuders (CAN) brakeman was with him in the Salt Lake Olympics 5 months into the sport, I believe but they have improved greatly as a team since.
PATIENCE (kinda funny in a speed sport!)
regarding igls track, I’ll get some infos for next autumn , thanks slideonice
eroszag, Nov 8-13 is an FIBT bob school in Igls. Maybe check into Winterberg as well, either are great starter tracks.
Many Italian sliders call Igls their “home track”. www.fibt.com & follow links to men’s bobsleigh schedule.
Good luck.
Thomas,
I guess I should have clarified a difference between a larger than normal athletic upper body and body builder wanna be upper body. However, two things regarding Pavle:
- He’s a genetic freak. Undisputed fact!
- His upper body IS smaller than when he started the sport in the summer of 97.
There’s a difference between a solid athletic build and a barrel chested body builder when riding in a sled. The days of Chip Minton riding #2 are mostly long gone. As a matter of fact, I’d wager Shimer would have meddled in 98’ if Rob Olesen were in his sled instead. I think the aero alone would have been worth the .02 he needed
Hays, in part, HAD to shrink. He’s a pretty big guy naturally, so to be able to sit behind him in a 4-man without bothering his driving would have been tough. From your posts I’d guess your familiar with riding position, so the #2 guys knees would have essentially been wedged between his shoulders and elbows. As you know… not good! Plus, Todd at 240+ restricts the weights of his crew too much.
I think there are a handful of reasons why some D1 athletes hesitate. I don’t think many actually understand the idea that they could be very successful and go to an Olympic Games down the road. Post education job, life, paying the bills, etc is a bit of a roadblock for many as well. Also $$$$$ - 75% of the quality D1 guys (football) who have come out still think they have a shot at the NFL. SO, when we explain the whole amateur athlete thing and that there is NO money to be made in bobsledding. Well… adios! Can’t tell you how many guys I’ve talked to in the past and their first question was “How much money will I make?”
The USBSF does not want “suitcase athletes.” The goal would be to have pushers stick around about 2 quads (6-8 years). That way teams could develop and stay together for the most part through two Olympic cycles. Since there’s really not much money to be made in the sport in the US outside of personal sponsors it’s harder for the USBSF to retain athletes over the long haul. Many of the European sliders are government subsidized and essentially paid to play (often military or police).
Actually, Shimer would be better off with about three 230-240 lbs monsters pushing him. That way he could just sit in the sled right at the block. 
I love to watch it, even considered taking part in it (which is not so hard living close to the alps), but - call me a coward - deadly accidents happen more frequently than in some other sports.
Respect to all who are brave enough to go down the track at > 70mph.
sowjet,
You’re partially right regarding deadly accidents in the sliding sports. They do happen. However, you might want to check the stats. Admittedly the numbers of particapation are lower (sliding sports,) but I’d pretty much garantee annual numbers of accidents are lower than what you’d expect compared to a sport like American football.