Well let me get more specific. I wonder how the trap bar deadlift compares to the deadlift in overall recruitment and efficacy as a main lift.
Currently my big guy doesn’t do a whole lot of lower body lifting because he’s still progressing without it, and I don’t know what to prescribe safely as of yet other than some low weight Romanian split squats and some light reverse leg press as there is a low back issue still outstanding.
Some here have mentioned feeling that they feel the deadlift saps the CNS quite a bit. Has anyone found a difference between the traditional deadlift and the trap bar deadlift?
Hell, if he’s progressing why add or change anything other than normal progression.
I would say it’s in between a back squat and classic deadlift because of the torso position. Maybe people say it bangs the CNS harder because you have to start concentrically from a dead stop, otherwise I cannot think of why it would be harder on the CNS.
Don’t worry, I’m not terribly adventurous. However, if you don’t put in a lower body stimulation exercise at least sometimes, then it’s not an option if you perhaps need it later on in the season when volume starts to drop or if you run into a minor injury or facility closure issues. Gotta cover those contingencies!
I have used the trap bar DL and liked it as a variation to the RDL. Interesting I liked it as it seemed to me to better match the starting position. After some problems in my hips my chiro recommended removing any squatting that loaded the spine. I have since added more single leg work with the load at my sides or in front. I also found a hip belt squat a nice alternative. May try adding more of the trap bar DL and see how that plays out. The video did have some good points on the musculature of upper back as a weak link for many.
You can carefully progress him into some medball throws down the field as soon as the spring hits. I am still training outside but will have to switch inside any day now but the weather here has been incredible to stay on the grass.
Early on I did hamstring curls in 3 sets usually 2 to 3 x a week and certainly I would begin reverse leg press.Sometimes you wont be able to do it but keep trying. Let your athlete’s que’s be your guide. Dont ask him per say as likely he will always say " I feel fine". End your sessions of speed with small sets starting with 15 and see how he responds. Yes, you need to factor this in but your point regarding putting lower body stimulation in at least sometimes is a valid one. When you get this done through the winter we can discuss the back stuff.
I quit track the first season working with Charlie as I was so freaked out about my back.
He was pissed with me but was really scared I hurt my back.
I was such a suck.
Looking back we were able to discuss that my back and hips and entire lower body were under a huge adaptation but it took several months until my back really could handle the work.
The other point to make clear is sprinters generally need to limit and therefor prioritize the number of lifts.
I witnessed Charlie working with tons of people at every level in sprinting for so many different sports and it always amazed me how simple he kept things.
I need to post my lifting in the very beginning year and show people with comments what my development looked like .
I can’t comment on Angella or the others but the pattern is the same and once the ground work has been laid more options exist.
The main emphasis for increasing speed will not be determined by squatting. Lifting in sprinting is supplementary first and foremost.
( there is a better way to say this but hopefully you understand my point)
I for one would be very interested in seeing this. A couple years ago Charlie mentioned the possibility of posting some samples of the other athletes’ training diaries as illustrative examples, but I think he was always scared people would try to copy them rather than understand the logic underlying them. It’s always good to see concrete examples, especially several that differ significantly from each other, which really forces you to find the common conceptual threads that connect them.
I think the main problem with almost the entire body of strength training literature lies in the fact that it is invariably analyzed in isolation without a sufficient appreciation for how it interacts with the rest of the training components (plyometrics suffers the same fate). The end result is almost always an overly complicated system. Charlie told me that those kinds of complexities make sense when weight training is your primary or sole activity, but most have to fall by the wayside when weights take a backseat to speed work. That’s why Charlie’s videos on Weight for Speed are so brilliant. I know of nothing else that really explains exactly how weight training properly integrates with speed and evolves over time with performance levels.
Angela, there have been a thread or two where myself and others were wanting to know what is being used now for a proper reverse leg press.
Not having to modify the use of an old Universal station type leg press, as you described how you did it in the past.
Do you know of anything on the market that would be affordable, not something as "commercial/expensive"as the Butt Blaster, maybe something that could be fabricated at a local metal shop?
The only thing I can suggest is a resisted leg swing while on your hands and knees for the beginning or early stages but this certainly does not replace the reverse leg press.
If you found someone at a local metal shop speak to them about your needs and see if they can help you out.
WE used the old universal machines at york and I still see some of them around but they are poorly maintained and stiff to use at times.
I am not sure what else to suggest.
I was thinking that since Rich is probably talking about dealing with a developmental athlete, he might be able to get away with using one of the stiffer Therabands for resistance, and doing a donkey kick-like action as I think Ange is suggesting. You’re looking at $5 or less for a 5 foot Theraband, so the price is right!
maybe modify exc. # 6 in the link above for your needs?
BTW, I have many of the products from the CF store including 2002 Vancouver video (VHS) and the 02 forum review. It’s all Great Material that I would recommend to anyone.
Seriously, the Trap Bar point is an interesting one in that some say it should be avoided, particularly during competition period due to the stress it places on the posterior chain. Would like to hear member’s thoughts. Wouldn’t any exercise at any point have it’s fatigue risk? What about working with a young woman and finding this is the best way to intensify things? Should it be dumped in favor of a very light back squat?
I can see the trap bar DL being perhaps phased out during the competition period. I have read the same for the Glute Ham Raise. It has it’s benefits at the right time.
I am just in the process of viewing Charlie’s weights for strength again but do seem to recall that the DL was part of the general weights but removed closer to competition.
I don’t believe he does trap DL or squat (when done) for more than a few months out of the year, GPP pretty much. I notice most lowerbody static lifts are dropped by Pfaff and Schexnayder during the competitive period. This is for sprinters, jumpers…I would imagine for a bobsledder, football player, and maybe throwers they would not drop the lowerbody statics as much.
That is correct Trevor. Once I started doing more deads we might have done a few , heavier in very small numbers but squats were left for comp period providing all was going well.