Stay away from front squats…
Even weighlifters will favor back squats over front squats now days. One reason being that there are less limiting factors in the back squat. I can even name a couple of weightlifting coaches who favor more posterior chain development over quad development in their weightlifters and do more way more back squats for this reason. This wasn’t the case several years ago.
Rewatch the video and tell me why having stronger quads is an asset in sprinting which requires force executed from the largest muscle groups in our bodies? I didn’t think the quads were the largest muscles in the body ?
It’s true that ankle flexibility is important in sprinting. How do we get maximum ankle flexibility, are we born with some of it and what are best ways to acquire it?
Charlie commented once on Angella’s eldest daughter running the 100 meters. He marveled at how her ankle moved over the ground in the same way Angella’s did the first time he watched Angella run.
The proper balance of quad strength in relation to glute and hamstring strength is essential for sprinting.
I’m excited knowing members are quick to recall former discussions about topics others debate online.
Thank-you guys for drawing our attention to the history here as this debate will be favored most by people looking to " complete the project of reinventing the wheel "
lol Keep it Simple Sprinter KISS
CF-2007: “If you need to do front squat for whatever reason, you’d need to supplement with another back dominant lift. If you do backsquat, you don’t. If you actually have the choice and you need to limit the number of lifts in a session, the choice would be obvious. That said, you have to approach things in the way you are best able”
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?7218-Front-squat-VS-Back-squat
google search whatever keywords you want to read up on…even past Hall of Fame (HOF) Members
i.e. google: charliefrancis.com site: Front squats vs back squats
If in doubt, there is a video here called
Training and adaption
Front squats place less load on the knee joint. For a full PDF of the study, I have attached a link below.
Contrary to intuition when reviewing EMG data, the back squat actually activates greater RF, VL, than the front squat.
Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:
January 2009 - Volume 23 - Issue 1 - pp 284-292
doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e31818546bb
Original Research
A Biomechanical Comparison of Back and Front Squats in Healthy Trained Individuals
Gullett, Jonathan C; Tillman, Mark D; Gutierrez, Gregory M; Chow, John W
Abstract
Gullett, JC, Tillman, MD, Gutierrez, GM, and Chow, JW. A biomechanical comparison of back and front squats in healthy trained individuals. J Strength Cond Res 23(1): 284-292, 2008-The strength and stability of the knee plays an integral role in athletics and activities of daily living. A better understanding of knee joint biomechanics while performing variations of the squat would be useful in rehabilitation and exercise prescription. We quantified and compared tibiofemoral joint kinetics as well as muscle activity while executing front and back squats. Because of the inherent change in the position of the center of mass of the bar between the front and back squat lifts, we hypothesized that the back squat would result in increased loads on the knee joint and that the front squat would result in increased knee extensor and decreased back extensor muscle activity. A crossover study design was used. To assess the net force and torque placed on the knee and muscle activation levels, a combination of video and force data, as well as surface electromyographic data, were collected from 15 healthy trained individuals. The back squat resulted in significantly higher compressive forces and knee extensor moments than the front squat. Shear forces at the knee were small in magnitude, posteriorly directed, and did not vary between the squat variations. Although bar position did not influence muscle activity, muscle activation during the ascending phase was significantly greater than during the descending phase. The front squat was as effective as the back squat in terms of overall muscle recruitment, with significantly less compressive forces and extensor moments. The results suggest that front squats may be advantageous compared with back squats for individuals with knee problems such as meniscus tears, and for long-term joint health
Oh, and not to forget,
Most people dont know how to squat…
I don’t think learning to squat is that hard but that’s off topic.
Interestingly Dan Pfaff has somewhat phased out squats and seems to prescribe Trapbar deads more. Some of his athletes (Rutherford) mainly use the stepup as their lower body static lift.
I have often wondered about the trap bar deadlift. My coach put it in my program a few years back, and it’s an easy lift to master. I wonder how it impacts the taller high performance athlete though. Some have questioned the deadlift, and I’m not sure how the trap bar deadlift compares.
It would be easy for a taller athlete. In the videos I have seen all the athletes use the upper hand holds. Relatively short range of motion. From my observation it’s weights…not the most important aspect of training for a sprinter or jumper. Helps the first part of a sprint and preventing injury.
Well let me get more specific. I wonder how the trap bar deadlift compares to the deadlift in overall recruitment and efficacy as a main lift.
Currently my big guy doesn’t do a whole lot of lower body lifting because he’s still progressing without it, and I don’t know what to prescribe safely as of yet other than some low weight Romanian split squats and some light reverse leg press as there is a low back issue still outstanding.
Some here have mentioned feeling that they feel the deadlift saps the CNS quite a bit. Has anyone found a difference between the traditional deadlift and the trap bar deadlift?
Hell, if he’s progressing why add or change anything other than normal progression.
I would say it’s in between a back squat and classic deadlift because of the torso position. Maybe people say it bangs the CNS harder because you have to start concentrically from a dead stop, otherwise I cannot think of why it would be harder on the CNS.
Don’t worry, I’m not terribly adventurous. However, if you don’t put in a lower body stimulation exercise at least sometimes, then it’s not an option if you perhaps need it later on in the season when volume starts to drop or if you run into a minor injury or facility closure issues. Gotta cover those contingencies!
I have used the trap bar DL and liked it as a variation to the RDL. Interesting I liked it as it seemed to me to better match the starting position. After some problems in my hips my chiro recommended removing any squatting that loaded the spine. I have since added more single leg work with the load at my sides or in front. I also found a hip belt squat a nice alternative. May try adding more of the trap bar DL and see how that plays out. The video did have some good points on the musculature of upper back as a weak link for many.
You can carefully progress him into some medball throws down the field as soon as the spring hits. I am still training outside but will have to switch inside any day now but the weather here has been incredible to stay on the grass.
Early on I did hamstring curls in 3 sets usually 2 to 3 x a week and certainly I would begin reverse leg press.Sometimes you wont be able to do it but keep trying. Let your athlete’s que’s be your guide. Dont ask him per say as likely he will always say " I feel fine". End your sessions of speed with small sets starting with 15 and see how he responds. Yes, you need to factor this in but your point regarding putting lower body stimulation in at least sometimes is a valid one. When you get this done through the winter we can discuss the back stuff.
I quit track the first season working with Charlie as I was so freaked out about my back.
He was pissed with me but was really scared I hurt my back.
I was such a suck.
Looking back we were able to discuss that my back and hips and entire lower body were under a huge adaptation but it took several months until my back really could handle the work.
The other point to make clear is sprinters generally need to limit and therefor prioritize the number of lifts.
I witnessed Charlie working with tons of people at every level in sprinting for so many different sports and it always amazed me how simple he kept things.
I need to post my lifting in the very beginning year and show people with comments what my development looked like .
I can’t comment on Angella or the others but the pattern is the same and once the ground work has been laid more options exist.
The main emphasis for increasing speed will not be determined by squatting. Lifting in sprinting is supplementary first and foremost.
( there is a better way to say this but hopefully you understand my point)
I for one would be very interested in seeing this. A couple years ago Charlie mentioned the possibility of posting some samples of the other athletes’ training diaries as illustrative examples, but I think he was always scared people would try to copy them rather than understand the logic underlying them. It’s always good to see concrete examples, especially several that differ significantly from each other, which really forces you to find the common conceptual threads that connect them.
I think the main problem with almost the entire body of strength training literature lies in the fact that it is invariably analyzed in isolation without a sufficient appreciation for how it interacts with the rest of the training components (plyometrics suffers the same fate). The end result is almost always an overly complicated system. Charlie told me that those kinds of complexities make sense when weight training is your primary or sole activity, but most have to fall by the wayside when weights take a backseat to speed work. That’s why Charlie’s videos on Weight for Speed are so brilliant. I know of nothing else that really explains exactly how weight training properly integrates with speed and evolves over time with performance levels.
“certainly I would begin reverse leg press”
Angela, there have been a thread or two where myself and others were wanting to know what is being used now for a proper reverse leg press.
Not having to modify the use of an old Universal station type leg press, as you described how you did it in the past.
Do you know of anything on the market that would be affordable, not something as "commercial/expensive"as the Butt Blaster, maybe something that could be fabricated at a local metal shop?