Aut disce aut discede - Either learn or leave
If I am opposed to a statement I will only try to argue my point clearly and logically.
If I appear agressive or like im trying to “force” it on people, I can’t hide the passion I feel for my work.
I have never opposed CFTS. WHY ELSE WOULD I BE HERE ??
seanjos
I can answer for Power and Number Two, as we’ve worked together on this. Static stretching can be used at the beginning of the lower body stretching cycle, before PNF, then Ballistic work, mixed in with exercises. You can see this for yourself on the GPP DVD, where it is illustrated. Frankly though, the best way to get this feel is to have it done on you as you progress through the warm-up.
This is not to say that all these methods are always used, but they are available and not dismissed out of hand.
Number Two is used for stretching for players who are out of the line-up and need help to play again. While you might get a chance to work on players once based on rep, you won’t get a second chance without results. These guys are particularly prone to back problems related to tightness and pounding from jumps etc. The pounding is so great that the big men on court must replace their shoes after every game!
How can you possibly know who or what Speedkills has done. I’m pretty sure I know who he is but I need it confirmed from him first. Speed, are you MP???
Thanks, but you didn’t actually mention the “benefits” only the when’s and wheres.
Would you care to hear the list of reasons I am opposed to it ?
SeanJos
You need to exercise extreme caution in this circumstances and especially when it comes to any attempt at increasing the existing ROM. That said, I will use it sometimes, but it is very progressive. You can see some of this on the DVDs, prob best on the Fundamentals.
I guess a rule of thumb might be to go for more range of motion when you expect it’s most available and be careful when you expect some problems. Likewise, with the moving PNF work, you can start easier with less resistance when they’re tighter and do more reps overall till you get an acceptable response- which may or may not be the fullest range you’ve seen.
You made the comment that you were going to provide your information for review, and we have still not seen it?
Ecce signum - Behold the proof
Sure, why not?
No, I’m not MP. I have talked with MP a couple of times and I would like to think my english was better than his. Then again, his polish is better than my english.
I was wondering!!
Charlie,
What I should have said is getting the athlete to their normal/best/already established range of motion, but that is going to be different every day isn’t?
How might this be different when working with team sport athletes, who may require greater ranges of motion because of the demands of the sport (I am talking about an athlete who is tight on a given day and will need to get to certain ranges of motion to be effective and safe)?
If you go to a physio and they sit you on the edge of the table and perform a Thomas test on you and feel the resistance you are producing at the bind point or stretch point that is in some way a static stretch. In this respect you can use static stretching in the warmup to guage how tight an athlete is in a joint or how much ROM they have compared to what they usually have through static stretching. I guess this isn’t really stretching par se but it is a useful tool to figure out how much more warmup you need.
TC
Well, optimization of best available daily ROM and best ROM may not be the same thing. It would be nice if they were.
Regardless of the need, you must deal with the above reality. Sometimes you simply cannot get all the ROM you want and, if that’s the case, you might consider limiting the team man’s play.
How did you or Number One deal with this issue in professional sports, when athletes are getting paid, and expected to play?
I didn’t really list the benefits of various methods because I consider all methods in the same way- as an arsenal at my disposal to get the ROM I want or need, to be used when and if I need to. I guess not a very good answer but one that defines my experience.
Another interesting phenominon at play here is the nature of stretching with top sprinters when thay are peaking. At peak, a stretch is really not a stretch at all! They are so loose that the stretching becomes little more than a check that all is ok to proceed to the next stage of the warm-up. This is a phenominon I experienced many times, both as a athlete and as a coach.
When I was coaching track(I’m currently out of the field) I was one who thought that static stretching, in particular, as part of the warm-up would be nothing but negative in helping to achieve high speeds/high power outputs. I held onto this believe for a few years-data on reducing the time of the stretch reflex-numbing the golgi-tendon apparatus. I believe the research I read said the numbing down could take place for up to an hour post stretching bout for the muscle belly or gto to regain it’s slackness.
For years we did only a dynamic/active warm-up routing with no static stretching present in the program(except post workout). While such a warm-up is much preferred(in my opinion) to the old run two-4 laps and sit down for 10-15 minutes to stretch method, I find that the inclusion of static with the other dynamic components is far and away the best option.
I learned from Charlie that both the degree and duration of the stretch went a long way to determining whether the static routine was going to help or hinder the subsequent training session or competition-i.e. no loss of the static reflex. Per Charlie’s reccommendations(gpp dvd/clinics) we limited the warm-up static section to only 15-20 second holds and only attempting to achieve NORMAL ranges of motion-reserving the attempt to improve rom’s to post workout. Also, if somehow the individual was to go too far or too long(being carefull could easily prevent this from happening) by the time you get to your near full speed build-ups or the actual sprint section of your training or competition enough time will have elapsed for the static reflex to be back to 100% anyway.
What I found is that most of the kids resting or basic flexibility improved and that warming up on a daily basis was easier-did not take as much time to “get loose”. The muscle status improved on a daily basis-not as much tightness/tension from day to day. So even without warming up they were more flexible from the start of practice. It especially benefitted the chronically tight/inflexible individuals. With that said, I think it’s important to point out that we never stretched a cold muscle. Again per CF we would only begin our first static stretch after significant movement time to increase the core and peripheral temperatures-this is only logical-I even figured this out when I was in 9th grade in my own training.
I believe that the increased basic or resting ranges of motion helped to contribute to higher maximum velocities since the athletes were not able to(especially the previously inflexible ones)achieve full extension at top speed. Certainly the dynamic flex. work and sprinting itself helped to increase dynamic roms. My two cents.
Team players are expected to play, BUT, they are expected to be available over the long haul and in playoff games. If there is a question, they’ll often be held out- or their role will be changed up.
An example from my experience, a Linebacker was kept in situations where he was not expected to cover a wide area until he was cleared to get back to his normal full role.
Pioneer,
I remember thinking the same way. In fact, I was posting on a thread here about how I thought static-stretching was just a post-workout thing. I’ve learned from Charlie to not think in such a limited way (though occasionally it seems that I return to that thinking).
Exactly, it just proves that it’s not enough to have the right tools(as was said earlier in the thread) but more important to know how to properly use the tools you have. It really seemed to me that the kids with flex. issues coming in are going to benefit the most with thorough flexibility work pre and post workout though all do benefit to some degree.
I think their may be a psychological effect in the use of static stretching as well. The athletes I train like the individual time to prepare themselves and transition from the hustle of the day to training.
I work with athletes of varying ages, and when I attempt to remove the static stretches from the training I am met with anger and frustration. The dynamic stretches do not allow for the same relaxation, and seem to better located later in the warm-up, when the athlete is physically and mentally ready for greater demands.
It also gives the athletes time to talk! They like to catch up before the session. I’ve never understood it but we always have 10min of chat before we do anything productive. Don’t understand why!