Extremes: General and Specific

In an exchange of e-mails the following was put forward to me:

provided a good design is in place, a training plan can be exceptional and offer
a) fast and continuous improvement, and
b) no overtraining,
if it is based on the two extremes: General and Specific.

General can be exemplified as “train to train” and Specific as “train to race”.

The plan has no middle ground (90 - 100 % effort), its Specificity comes exclusively from repeated efforts of the activity/event itself and it has been very successful across sports and track in particular.

For those of you familiar with this training system, as it has been discussed in the forum before, please, feel free to correct/adjust any of the above.

My questions are:

  1. how would you explain its success? And
  2. has anyone ever tried anything moving towards this direction?

Thanks!

We’ve had many discussions in the archives about the gen vs specific weights.

No need for weights! The people involved were doing only shoulder presses and pull ups, as far as I know -if this is what you mean by weights.
EDIT: I know this approach has been discussed in the old forum, but it’s been some time since then and new thoughts/opinions may have been created in the meantime. I am just interested in the absolute specificity of the approach (e.g., event distance only), I find it very interesting!

Nikoluski
Are you talking about the Kenteris type of training?

Yes, I just don’t want to refer to any particular names, as it’s irrelevant to me. It has been used elsewhere anyway. I’d be glad to see your thoughts/experiences!

An interesting point here could be making an effort to define training approaches and programs along a GENERAL vs. SPECIFIC continuum: “train to train”,“gym based” programs vs. “train to race”,“field/track based” ones,and analyze distribution,success rates,pros and cons,etc…

Start with General as development of the whole body and Specific as development only of those muscles directly involved in the desired action.

I just realized that you might not get what I was saying here. I mean this to be a definition of each one- not a method!!!

I’ve been told by a young sprinter who trained with this system that she failed because she didn’t have the general development to endure it, the “specific” program had no effect on her performance, and caused damages in soft tissue. However, i’ve seen some of the “specific” folks using non-100m event specific stuff like squats or tempo…

You’ve identified one of the major issues. It isn’t just the lack of general prep for later more specific activities, but the need to concentration on those specific activities themselves, even if prepared, that increases in injuries exactly where you cannot afford to have them.

My feeling is that everyone who plays sport at a high level will benefit from a good set of “athletic” skills. Surely they must support specific work with some non specific conditioning otherwise how do they avoid injury to the feet and legs?

“The plan has no middle ground (90 - 100 % effort), its Specificity comes exclusively from repeated efforts of the activity/event itself and it has been very successful across sports and track in particular.”

This has been discussed before, but it is important to take in account the amount of work done during warm-up and warm-down as a low intensity component, relative to the high intensity which is done at a low volume.

While warm-up and warm-down volumes are part of your workload, I leave them out of training equations because they are of a varied intensity ranging from barely moving up to fairly fast so assigning values is problematic.
I can do this (and stay safe) by ensuring that the same warm-up (WU1) is done every training day and the same WU2 is done before every speed session and meet.

I am not trying to assume anything for any of the following points and I base them upon the information given to me.

Training to train/gym based programmes could be classified as those stressing different metabolic systems than those mainly employed in the event itself, or at least in a different way, stressing different types of muscle contractions and possibly even stressing the part of the body that’s not directly affected by the event itself (e.g., upper body). In that respect, “development of the whole body”, as Charlie hinted is indirectly achieved, i.e., development of the system.
Training to race/field-track based programmes could be classified as those employing the event itself to the absolute extreme, nothing more, nothing less (e.g., not parts of it in any sense, or at least from a point onwards). The stimulus “as development only of those muscles directly involved in the desired action” (CF) is supposed to be fully provided by the action itself –at least this is how I comprehend it based on what I’ve got.
Please, feel free to correct/supplement any of the above, as these are the first things that came to my mind, but an essential part to be further discussed, of course!

To some of the points raised by PJ:
I am not sure who’s this young sprinter and I don’t dispute your point, but was she under the same group? This is important, as I know a few people who tried to simply copy it, but failed. There were failures in the group itself, as no system works 100% for everyone, I guess (I am referring to both short and long sprinters).
As to the general development point when young, it makes sense, of course, but again a member of the group was using this system from the age of ~18, as far as running is concerned. I am pretty sure of this, but not positive, sorry.
As to weights, this seems to be a great mystery, because weights were used by this athlete when young (for sure) and perhaps in the post-2004 Olympics period, but I have no idea if that was the case during the prime period. Do you?
As to tempo, I am not sure if 90% effort of the racing distance performed twice with 5 min recovery and twice within a given day can be classified as tempo, as defined in this site. If yes, then tempo was used and many times within a, say, 2-week period, indeed.

As to the injuries part, Kenteris –since his name has already being mentioned- comes from a 400 m background and “normal” training. For quite some time, however, he was troubled with injuries (very bad year in 1996 and no races in 1997, I think), but from 1998 onwards no injuries were reported (45.60 NR in 1998, 20.50 in 1999, etc up to 2003). From the rest of the group there were those with injuries and those who avoided them.

I have no information on warm ups/warm downs and their role, if any, in the system and/or their physio etc support (re: avoiding legs/feet injuries).

Sorry for the long post!
Fire away –not at me!

PS similar attempts have been made to field events (e.g., triple jump) with not much success and with injuries.

EDIT: of course, I can’t talk about “distribution, success rates, pros and cons, etc.”, please, feel free to comment!

The young girl was in the group i’m talking about, she came back to her former training.
I can’t remember if she did weights or not, but as for the top guns for weights : cleans and squats, performed after sprint workouts (could be 5 or 7 x 60m at increased speeds, the first reps weren’t performed faster than 90%) and stomach exercises. As for tempo, grass runs surely close to 70-75% range. The +90% event races is the only thing they want to show and people to know of course.

However, the workout “body” has such a low volume, that i see no other choice to take in account the load of the warm-ups, some workouts actually contain only a warm-up sometimes. By the way, the warm-up is classic, jog, few strides, static stretching, abdominals, drills, acceleration.

I have no reason to dismiss your information, of course! May I ask though when was that, i.e., weights and the 60s (year, if possible) and if it was part of indoors training?

Just to make sure we are on the same page, could you give me an average number of weekly volume?

Not to digress…but

  1. Are we classifying specific as JUST sprinting at +95% and general as EVERYTHING ELSE (ie, plyos, weights and so on)

  2. General exercises are often implemented for the purpose of recovery. I believe the support specific work/workloads, but how exactly when the intensities are much lower than that experienced in the event (playing a bit of devils advocate)

Hope I’m not disrupting the thread :o