How much speed reserve is enough in sports like bobsleigh or soccer?
Soccer = 20m max accel and bobsleigh = 15 - 30m max accel. So even though you “never” would have enough, what would be considered enough? Is it realistic to think that in the envelope for a 20m sprint that one could ever achieve 11.5m/s starting from 0m/s EVEN if we could achieve 12m/s over a 50m sprint? Can we answer this in practical terms.
oh come on now kids. don’t be shy. Charlie … Clemson … Bueller …
Speed reserve will be relative as you suggest but still useful and should be expressed by some work beyond the event requirement itself. This gives a safety margin re injuries in bobsled and and makes most of the work actually done in the event easier to handle in soccer. The difference between these events and the sprints is that the lengthening of the event related speeds INCREASES the mps while the reverse is true with sprints.
regarding bobsled…first, it’s true that acceleration takes place in the first 30 mts , but , depending on the role on the sled, you can run up to 50m, and due to the slope, you reach speed higher than you track speed, so training max speed is very useful…otherwise, you just cannot push the sled at high speed, but can merely hope to load the sled…
What about looking at an athlete’s efficiency of acceleration as expressed by a percentage of their maximal velocity?
Still adding accel forces to 50m in a bobsled? When are you adding to accel and when are you cartwheeling while trying to get in?
How do we know what their max vel is to compare it to if they never go there?
As a personal experience, I can add that after 4 days of bobsled practice and competitions, when I got to the track the following week doing flying 20s, I had a feeling of really…flying:) ,leg turnover felt improved …
I think that max speed drills have definitely a place in bobsled training
Please explain why you feel this is the case. (And not just because of the weight you lost crapping yourself going down the course!!)
What was the break between the last day of competition and the return to the track?
2 or 3 days, don’t remember, but happened often(I mean, when competing during winter, you have 3 days of practice and one of race, so I experienced that felling more than once)
Just a feeling as I already told you, but If I had worked just on my acceleration I’m sure I’d had a hard time jumping on the sled at that speed!
Would be interesting to work a pattern in training more like what you feel after the race. IE 4 days training , 3 days off or easy, then race.
I’ve heard of this feeling before from other athletes. I’m wondering if it’s a case of running downhill and ACTUALLY sprinting at max speed. Most people in bobsleigh never really train at max speeds even though it is pretty important. I know that they time the push start BUT they also REALLY should take into consideration the exit speed at that time as well. I believe that they test for this but I’m not sure how much consideration it is given in the selection process of the athletes.
What country do you compete for?
Even though you can run up to 50m, I’m not sure if it’s overly done. I’ve only heard of one athlete running the entire 50m and that was in training (in indoors) without going down the track.
consider that you have 50m timed, but before that, there a re 10 m where you push the sled from still.Exit velocity is very important, but you can measure it only after loading the sled…usually at 50 m you are in excess of 50km/h…
It would be even very important at that time as well to know. I would even go as far as MORE important than the push start time.
Again, what country to you slide for?
that’s a bit tricky because of the exact nature of the work- downhill and cartwheeling. with Short to Long, I suppose you cna work longer till it’s time to get on the course and then you can do the final longer work there under the precise conditions. Heresy perhaps, but, because of the freewheeling nature of the last bit, would a high-speed treadmill be usefull in this one specific case?
An interesting stat to check is not only your push time at 50m, but also your velocity at that point. I know that one of my bobsleigh athletes (former 100m and 200m sprinter) has higher velocities at 50m than most, if not all, on the Canadian team. However, he does not always have the fastest time (but very close).
As he is lighter than most of the bobsleigh athletes on the Canadian world cup team (he’s about 215lbs typically), I assume that much of his contribution comes in the latter part of his acceleration phase (i.e. not the first 10m). Some of the bigger, stronger guys probably get to 10-15m faster, but he continues to accelerate beyond this point. The time to 50m could be equal, but his velocity is always faster at that mark.
Additionally, for speed training, we do not take him out much further than 30-40m on the track (mostly accel work), and really don’t do much in the way of “flying” 20’s - as I consider it risky at this point (he competed in track at 190-195lbs and now he is 20-25lbs heavier).
Only if you were jumping off the treadmill onto a swiss ball…!!!
I wouldn’t get too sanctimonious about crazyness when you’re already dealing with the bobsled! Kinda like Kamakazi pilots worrying about their cholesterol.
I understand that many athletes never go there in game situations, but does that mean we never go there in training? For most team sport athletes, does the concept of speed reserve limit itself to 0-30m?