I agree, it’s probably a more consistently accurate way to measure it. I’ll definitely switch tomorrow as I’ve been considering doing this for a while.
Did any of the health professional that treated you like at your joints? Did they rule out spine and pelvis? Did they check to see how the hip, knee and ankle joints moved on both sides for comparison? Or did they only perform soft tissue work?
Ya all of the health professionals compared my left hip to my right, made sure it wasn’t a pelvic or spinal problem, etc. The movement that I’ve always been missing in my left hip is hip flexion and internal rotation. I had a lumbar microdiscectomy 5 years ago and I believe that this missing hip ROM (and ridiculously tight hamstrings) might have caused this injury. I did get soft tissue work but it didn’t do much good.
Did they do any joint mobilizations or was it all soft tissue work? My guess with everything you have said is that there is a joint issue that led to muscular/soft tissue issues due to compensation. If that is the case, soft tissue work will not correct the problem because it never gets to the source. If the issue does turn out to avascular necrosis, there really is much therapists can do for that.
I don’t know if it’s a good idea to change to a seated position when doing the Ithlete HRV test. The test is designed specifically to be done standing while breathing, I believe in order to better see the differences in variability. I would carefully read the Ithlete manual before making a change such as doing the test seated. Heart rate usually spikes by at least 10 BPM once you stand, and this is accounted for as part of the Ithlete test. Taking the test seated may create an altered reading, so again I would carefully read over the manual.
I’ve seen about 10 different professionals consisting of physiotherapists, orthopaedists, sports chiropractors, alternative therapists, soft/deep tissue therapists for this issue and I did get joint mobilizations from the PT and Chiros as well as soft/deep tissue work. I agree that the bottom line is that I have a structural issue - FAI syndrome. The truth is that surgery is most likely the only option I have left and hope for the best that I don’t have true avascular necrosis. I have a very complicated issue to say the least…
Tyrone, I have looked into changing the HRV standing to lying protocol and the FAQ on the Ithlete website (http://myithlete.com/FAQ.html#faq11) says it shouldn’t matter as long as the readings are consistent. It also mentions that the research saying that RHRs below 50 would likely cause skewed data.
I don’t have any major training goals right now besides getting healthy and think this would be a good time to experiment. I think taking the measurement from a lying position would be a lot more convenient. Here are my results from the past three days since switching to the lying measurement:
Saturday - 91.7 HRV, RHR -60.8
Sunday - 91.6 HRV, RHR - 65.3
Monday - 85.8 HRV, RHR - 61.1 (stayed out later than usual last night and didn’t get as much sleep.)
I’ll be posting this stuff daily here to see if it stays consistent.
Week 2, Monday, 5.6.13
HRV - 86, RHR - 61
DB Bulgarian Split Squat - 4 x 10, 45lb DBs
RDL - 3 x 10, 165lbs
ISO Lunge - 2 x 30sec
EMS Speedcoach Level 1
Quads - 41
Hamstrings - 30
Glutes - 38
I can already start to tell that my legs are gaining the muscular size closer to where they once were after two sessions of MaxS EMS. I used different pad placement for the hamstrings and glutes this time. For hamstrings I used to use the rectangular 50x90mm pads for the upper pad placement but the stick wears off a lot faster than the square 50x50mm pads. I now just use all 50x50 for the hamstrings. For the Glutes now I’m using the recommendations from the Globus manual that involves placing three 50x50mm pads on the glute and one 50x90mm pad on each upper hamstring. I noticed a tremendous difference in the glute contractions and it even involved less milli-Amps/power than how I was previously placing the pads.
I found RHR and HRV were never very correlated. Often low RHRs didn’t mean great HRV scores. I also think a subjective test each morning such as a “feel great, feel so-so, feel terrible” helps to correlate what might be ideal for you. Zeo or newer sleep products also help get you more indices. With those you can do all sorts of ratios on sleep, HRV etc. Not sure if it has merit given the time and the lack of proof, but might be something to explore if you do have time and energy for it.
Initially I did not notice any correlation between RHR and HRV, but after having done it consistently I do notice my HRV is normally better the lower my RHR is. This is not always the case though. I have also been able to guess pretty well if my HRV is going to be “great, so-so, terrible” by how I am feeling before and during the test.
I have generally found the same- the lower the resting heart rate, the better the nervous system status. We currently have a lot of data on a Michigan based athlete doing a Short to Long program. I am looking forward to sharing some of that data in the near future.
Tuesday, 5.6.13
HRV - 84, RHR - 64
Bench - 205 x 10, 185 x 10, 165 x 10
NG Chin-ups - 5 x 5 w/ 10lbs added
Contrast shower - ended on hot
EMS Active Recovery Mode - 10min each
Quads - 14
Hamstrings - 20
Glutes -32
I have more lame news to tell about my hip - I’m not even going to get to see the surgeon until mid June because he’s super booked. Part of the reason why I’m getting in so late is because the office secretaries just now sent my info in today when my MRIs were complete last week. Jeez these doctors are causing me to lose all kinds of training time…
Bench was easy today, will go for 225 next week. I don’t have any muscular soreness from yesterday’s EMS session.
So I got a chance to look through Mike’s HRV data. We currently have 110 days of data, with 51 out of 110 days having an HRV score of 80.0 or higher.
Out of the 51 days with scores higher than 80.0, there are 15 days with scores of 85 or higher. They are listed below;
05/6 HRV 87.3 HR 64.1
5/5 HRV 85.3 HR 59.1
4/25 HRV 85.1 HR 67.4
4/23 HRV 85.5 HR 66.5
4/18 HRV 85.1 HR 67.3
4/8 HRV 87.8 HR 60.3
3/14 HRV 88.8 HR 58.4
3/13 HRV 87.9 HR 60.8
2/15 HRV 88.3 HR 58.2
2/11 HRV 86.3 HR 63.0
2/9 HRV 85.6 HR 62.6
1/30 HRV 86.2 HR 59.6
1/27 HRV 87.1 HR 59.9
1/26 HRV 87.5 HR 62.8
1/23 HRV 87.8 HR 53.7
You can see once HRV climbs to 87’s, he has a resting HR of below 60 virtually every time, so there does appear to be a pretty clear correlation between lowest heart rate and highest HRV score. Obviously the sample size is limited, but it’s growing daily!
When I get more time, I can drill down deeper and start to show the effects on HRV of tempo, EMS, and massage. Very interesting stuff!
Tyrone, keep in mind that Mike is also following the recommended Ithlete measurement protocol by taking a standing measurement immediately after waking. I know it’s not ideal to compare Ithlete measurements between two people, but his standing HRV/RHR measurements are better than my lying HRV/RHR measurements! If he were to do a lying measurement, his RHR might get below 40 which makes the standing measurement very necessary for him.
Also, the Ithlete is coming out with a team app now. I bet you could get a beta version of it if you talk to the Ithlete people: http://myithlete.com/blog/?p=1592
T-Slow
It will be interesting to see your results with tempo, EMS, etc and HRV. I have noticed some trends and it will be interesting to see if you are seeing the same things with the athletes you are testing.
Kyle, I just got the Ithlete Team email! Exciting stuff. I think I will get in touch with them soon.
You make a good point about Mike’s heart rate. I’m glad you pointed out that part in the FAQ that mentions heart rates below 50 can skew results. I think for my taller athlete a seated test might be a better idea, as I bet his heart rate rises a bit more than the average person on standing. We can always count on you to be thorough!
With regard to recovery, we were amazed by the effects of tempo, EMS, and massage on HRV. I’m going to keep my mouth shut until I can compile our evidence though!
Should be quite interesting to see how this plays out with the outdoor season. #TeamADD
Wednesday, 5.8.13
HRV - 91.9, RHR -59.3
Bulgarian Split Squat - 3 x 10, 50’s
SL Leg Curl - (2-0-2) 3 x 10
Speedcoach Lv1 EMS:
Quads - 43
Hamstrings - 29
Glutes - 43
Forgot to do ISO split lunges today. Prior to the training today, my quads were quite heavy/sore from Monday’s training session. Overall the EMS session went well again. On other good news, I got an earlier appointment with the surgeon now. My wait is still 3.5 weeks, but it’s better than 5 weeks.
Hey there,
I will start a new thread shortly where we can go through the indoor season. Should be some fun stuff to look at.
(Sorry for the threadjack Kyle!)
Thursday, 5.9.13
HRV - 86.3, 66.1
Bench - 3 x 10, 185lbs
NG Pullups - 3 x 5
-BB work
Friday, 5.10.13
HRV - 82.0, RHR - 67.1
-Graduation, completed my undergrad degree on time.
Saturday, 5.11.13
HRV - 85.3, RHR - 65.2
Bulgarian Split Squat - 4 x 10, 40lb DBs
DB RDL - 3 x 10, 55’s
ISO Lunge - 2 x 30sec
Speedcoach level 1
Quads - 48
Hamstrings - 33
Glutes - 46
I’ve just completed 4 sessions with the level 1 speedcoach and will start going with level 2 next week. I was able to tolerate higher intensities today and will need leather to bite down on for the next session. I did 3 EMS sessions this week and next week I will try to ramp it up to 4 sessions depending on how much time I have.
Week 3, Monday, 5.13.13
HRV - 92.4 (all time high), RHR - 61.2
Bulgarian Split Squat - 3 x 10, 55lb DBs
DB RDL - 3 x 10, 55’s
ISO Lunge - 1 x 60sec each
Speedcoach lv2
Quads - 48
Hamstrings - 37
Glutes - 51
I don’t know if my pad placement is bad or what but I’m having to use 5-10 more mA on my left side just to get an equal feel for both sides. It seemes like my right side which is the side that’s not hurt is getting a much stronger contraction.
Tuesday, 5.14.13
HRV - 84.7, RHR - 66.3
Bench - 225 x 10, 205 x 10, 175 x 10
NG Pullups - 3 x 5, BW+20lbs
BB Work
Will do active recovery EMS later tonight. Good news is that I’ve managed to get an earlier appointment with the surgeon which is this upcoming Monday. From there I’m hoping I can get the arthroscopy very quickly.