i was reading the last question of strength by CPol, and i’ve fallen into this:
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"Q: What do you think of cryotherapy, that post-workout ice-massage stuff?
A: The latest research shows it has no effect at all on post-workout recovery. It does zippo!
The only thing it does is increase cortisol post-workout, which is a stressor. In my opinion, it delays recovery — as does anything that increases cortisol — and is actually counterproductive. And the newest research shows it does nothing for DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness). I’ve just never seen it work. Waste of time.
A lot of soccer teams in the U.K. invested money in cryo-suits, basically a suit that literally freezes you. They stopped using these suits because they actually increased the number of injuries — $150,000 down the toilet.
Listen, some things may sound good in a couple of initial studies, but they just don’t stand the test of time. Cryotherapy was a hot topic a few years ago, but today you don’t hear much about it. Why? It just doesn’t work.
ice rub
On the other side, look at post-workout drinks. I was using them in 1982, back when many of today’s gurus were playing with their G.I. Joes. These drinks are still around today and people keep using them. Why? They work.
It’s like squatting: always worked, always will. But look at all the “superior” machines than have come and gone. Things that work stick around. Cryotherapy didn’t stick around; post-workout drinks did."
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My personal experience is that it does nothing to get rid of soreness, take an epsom bath instead.
Obviously if you have an acute injury then it’s usefull to bring the swelling down.
Used to jump in ice baths after football practice. Did nothing. Just shrinks your balls and as mentioned I’m sure it increases cortisol thus delaying recovery.
there is evidence that it will impair recovery. There was a study done on grip I think. The arm that had cryotherapy afterwards gained less strength and mass than the arm that did not.
I will look for the reference.
The feeling was that a certain amount of inflammation is necassery for gains. and that frequent use will decrease gains.
The consensus amongst people I have spoken to however is that can still be used after the most intense trainings or after a game if there is one game per week that the body gets destroyed in… so after the rugby game or after the most intense session of the week or the month where oedema and or injury is a risk…
This the obvious case of ‘I think’ something so it most be true … then everyone jumps on the bandwagon pulling studies from left right and centre with no actual proper investigation of th full paper.
Cryotherapy can be applied in many ways … it’s just a modality… an method … does fat affect it? Does the method afects it? Ice vs water? Movement of water in the bath or still water? Thermonuetral or cold water? all these things are questions … that no one answers - they jump to conclusions.
For example … I would be delighted if anyone can show me where cryotherapy increases or increased cortisol after training… It does not happen - in fact it’s used to supress rises in cortisol and increase Test in most cases.
But how can you argue against a negative?
Also that is just the physiological assessment rather than the neurological considerations which are far more important.
Funny that this was brought up at the same time over at Power & Bulk and the consensus there is that of course cold showers/icing works great and T-nation . . . let’s just say dogs do it a lot.
Why would they dis icing and in the same breath tout PWO drinks? Because ice/cold water is free while the super-duper PWO drinks that are a must for <insert latest fad buzzword here> are available for the low low price of $$$. Call now, operators are standing by!
Cortisol, as we know, is the hormone that most specifically responds to stress. Take a random individual, dump their body into an ice tank. You really think their stress level didn’t just go up, hence, increasing cortisol levels? Let’s say cortisol levels didn’t go up. We also know that recovery takes places while the parasympathetic system is dominant. Jumping into cold ass (or hot ass for that matter) temperatures is going to fire up the sympathetic system. Sympathetic on = parasympathetic, and recovery, off. The body does not care that we want to recover from an athletic event, the body cares about survival and that it’s internal organs as well as reproductive organs are cold as hell.
In the end, common sense tells us being in an excessively cold or excessively warm environment is always a stressor to the body.
Just for your information before anyone gets pissy. NO23 worked with the most expensive cryotherapy devices out there for a major international team and has done extensive research so you should be listening to what he says.
Sorry I was somewhat serious though. I have a slight aversion towards ice as our training staff uses bags of ice to treat nearly any ailment. Ice tubs, ice wraps, ice packs, deep tissue ice massage…that’s about the inventory.
any thoughts, i know youve seen the full articles at BR?
Post-exercise leg and forearm flexor muscle cooling in humans attenuates endurance and resistance training effects on muscle performance and on circulatory adaptation.Yamane M, Teruya H, Nakano M, Ogai R, Ohnishi N, Kosaka M.
Laboratory for Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics, Chukyo University, 101 Tokodachi, Kaizu-cho Toyota, 470-0393, Aichi, Japan. myamane@cnc.chukyo-u.ac.jp
The influence of regular post-exercise cold application to exercised muscles trained by ergometer cycling (leg muscles) or handgrip exercise using a weight-loaded handgrip ergometer (forearm flexor muscles) was studied in human volunteers. Muscle loads were applied during exercise programs three to four times a week for 4-6 weeks. Besides measuring parameters characterizing muscle performance, femoral and brachial artery diameters were determined ultrasonographically. Training effects were identified by comparing pre- and post-training parameters in matched groups separately for the trained limbs cooled after exercise by cold-water immersion and the corresponding trained limbs kept at room temperature. Significant training effects were three times more frequent in the control than in the cold group, including increases in artery diameters in the control but not in the cold group. It is concluded that training-induced molecular and humoral adjustments, including muscle hyperthermia, are physiological, transient and essential for training effects (myofiber regeneration, muscle hypertrophy and improved blood supply). Cooling generally attenuates these temperature-dependent processes and, in particular, hyperthermia-induced HSP formation. This seems disadvantageous for training, in contrast to the beneficial combination of rest, ice, compression and elevation in the treatment of macroscopic musculo-tendinous damage.
This one has a nice summary of the literature.
Using Recovery Modalities between
Training Sessions in Elite Athletes
Does it Help?
Anthony Barnett1,2
“in summary there is some indication of cryotherapy effectiveness over recovery periods relevant to between training sesion intervals following exercise that may be more representative of training that used to induce DOMS. However overall the evidence supporting cryotherapy as a recovery modality is weak and recent research indicates that it may actually have negative effects on adaptation to training. Further research using tramining more specific to that used by elite athletes is needed.”
