Originally posted by akm100m

[quote]Originally posted by Sprrinter984
Where can I get baking soda?

Any supermarket. [/quote]

Baking soda is the common name for bicarb soda (or Sodium Bicarbonate). Not to be confused with baking powder, which also contains rice flour.

BTW, congrats to akm100m for his first sub 11 FAT :wink:

… group of Norwegian researchers have moved to correct the balance with a study of 18 well-trained male sprinters at local competition level, whose performances were observed to improve significantly after five days of supplementation with high dose creatine.
During the previous two years a substantial part of these athletes’ training had consisted of a series of maximal sprints with short rest periods to improve their fatigue resistance. For the study they were split into two groups of nine, one group taking 20g of creatine daily and the other a placebo preparation for a period of five days. Before and after supplementation they completed one 100m sprint and a series of six intermittent 60m sprints starting every 50secs.

Key results were as follows:

  1. Only one of the sprinters was able to identify correctly whether he had received creatine or placebo;
  2. Although no significant body weight changes were seen in the placebo group, a significant increase of 0.6kg was seen in the creatine group;
  3. Blood creatine levels were unchanged in the placebo group but increased significantly in the creatine group;
  4. The 100m sprint times and 60m split times were not statistically different after supplementation with placebo. But creatine supplementation resulted in significant improvements, reducing the 100m sprint time from 11.68 to 11.59secs and reducing the total time of the six intermittent 60m sprints from 45.63 to 45.12secs.
    ‘An increased performance could be a result of the increased amount of PCr [creatine phosphate] available in skeletal muscle, since the amount of PCr is one of the most likely limitations to muscle performance during brief, high power exercise,’ suggest the researchers.‘Increased PCr in skeletal muscle may delay the depletion of PCr stores and maintain ATP turnover rate, suggesting increased energy availability during heavy exercise.’
    The benefit of an improvement in 100m sprint time is self-evident, as the researchers point out, but the value of improved intermittent 6x60m sprint times is less obvious.‘It may suggest that each training component can be performed at a higher quality level and thus Cr supplementation may improve the quality of training, leading to greater gains in sprint performance.’
    From the sprinter’s perspective, the news about creatine looks good. However, the researchers take a cautious view that, although there have been no reports of serious side effects with creatine supplementation, further investigation of the effects of long-term use should now be carried out.
    Scand J Med Sci Sports 2001 Apr 11(2), pp96-102

Form my own perspective, I first used Creatine in 94. This is when I was mainly into weight training. I was amazed at the result. An example, I was at that stage dumbell pressing 110lb dumbells and I could manage about 5 reps. After creatine supplementation I went to 8 reps. It felt like someone was helping me. Quite amazing and to this day I’ll never forget it.

Can creatine be used for sprinting training(taking it after sprinting workout) without the involvement of weights.

I strained my hamstring last year and while i was off for two weeks i was lifting heavy and taking creatine and protein right after the workouts. I was only lifting three times a week though and running in the pool otherwise. I started runnning on the track again full strength about one month afterwards and had gained about 10 pounds but was a lot stronger in workouts. Oh i’m a 400 sprinter by the way. I think creatine helps a lot in workouts.

I dont know how relevant it is to anyone on the site, but I know from experience and in talking with other athletes, that for a vegetarian, creatine supplementation is a big YES. I immediately noticed a difference in training and when I run out, I can tell a difference in about 10 days.

Get this - an athletic trainer here at my school said that creatine contains “traces of anabolic steroids”.

I guess he meant like, electrons, protons, and neutrons…

Originally posted by marshall
Get this - an athletic trainer here at my school said that creatine contains “traces of anabolic steroids”.

I guess he meant like, electrons, protons, and neutrons…

I’d love to know where these ‘trainers’ get off saying crap like this. The funny part it, they’re not a player in any ‘conspiracy’, they’re just plain STUPID.

The trainer was probably referring to cross contamination as described by KitKat on the previous page. However, not being able to pronounce nor understand the term cross-contamination the trainer simply left it out - ergo, all creatine contains traces of really bad fings.

I tend to cycle my creatine under the assumption that the body adapts and builds tolerances to anything if done long enough. I also recall reading in one of my Russian sprint training manuals that they recommended cycling it - 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

I like to work it into my max strength cycles as follows. I follow a standard 7 week cycle. The first three weeks are increasing intensity and volume, the 4th week is a bit lower volume and then the final three weeks progress again. I use EMS on the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th weeks. Creatine is taken 5g/day on weeks 1, 2, 5 and 6. I mix it with my post workout protein and grape juice.

Why do I use the creatine for the first two weeks of my 3-1-3 cycle? I feel that it lets me get ahead of the game and load my muscles with it so that I have enough left to make it through my hardest (most intense) weeks (weeks 3 and 7) and then by week 4, and 8 I have lost enough cell volume that I don’t have to worry about muscle tears and the other problems that nightmare4d and Charlie posted.

I should also note that I am not a huge creatine responder. I see very subtle effects, usually involving my ability to tolerate a bit more volume.

nightmare4d, I also recalll reading an study that determined creatine was a protective factor for football concussions…perhaps yet another reason to keep on low doses of it in-season as well. I’ll see if I can dig up the article.



While creatine breaksdown in liquid, are we not talking about a 24 hour timescale, even them it is not fully brokendown.

However, I am with U, drink it as soon as you can after mixing it.

I mix in my drink before I workout, then I can have my post workout drink ASAP.

I think creatine works best as a recovery aide and lets you train with more power (or speed) for more intervals. Best used pre-season and at the beginning of the season. As peaking approaches we reduce or eliminate it’s use. Most studies didn’t involve anything but creatine (no baking soda), but creatine mixes best in something warm or hot (ie. tea). Even if you’re not lifting, just sprinting, I think it’s a good addition as a supp.
As far as cycling on/off - we only go off for peaking (a/b a month before whatever major competiotion).

Creatine should not be mixed with anything hot. It should still be partially undisolved when ingested. Furthermore, if you premix creatine, it breaks down into creatinine, which is a waste product and will therefore need to be cleaned out by the liver.

Mix, then drink ASAP. Take it with carbs to help absorbtion. Luke warm liquid is fine. Just not hot.


What’s the rationale behind going off for the peak period? Does anybody out there cycle right on through major competitions?

duck -
We cycle off creatine (or dramatically reduce it’s use) for peaking for similar reasons to what CF was quoted above as. That there may be too much of a pump (or simply “tightness” at top speed) and that the added power utilized during pre and regular season stays with you for about a month (guesstimate) post- creatine: and the usual drop in body weight when stopping creatine enhances the force / lb. ratio.
And agreed, warm, not “hot” liquid works best; and creatine is stable enough in liquid that you’d be fine to wait an hr or two. We’ve found little advantage in any creatine - carb MARKETED combo (unless you like to spend extra $) - just add sugar to whatever you mix with.

 And - as a side note - we've found most female athletes to be fairly poor responders.  Maybe some advantage, but not nearly as much as male athletes.  Any others have this experience?


i cant speak for coach john, but here is what CF has to say about creatine. this is takin from a t-mag interview a few years back…

T: Are there any legal supplements out there that you like?

CF: There’s a lot of things out there that are very good, the problem is in how much and when. Creatine can be very helpful and very harmful. For example, jetlag can cause an athlete to lose fluid out of the muscles and into the tissue surrounding it. By taking creatine you can bring the fluid back to its normal levels inside the muscle cells and allow the proper transfer of nutrients across the cell membranes to speed recovery. You’ll also have more fuel available for the activity.

The downside is if you pump too much fluid in there you decrease the ability of the muscle to move over itself because it’s too pumped up. Then you’re at risk of injury. So there’s a very fine balance, as in all things.

T: What about creatine loading?

CF: I would never be in favor of a loading phase. It would be an unnecessary and dangerous thing to do. You put it in there and the body will use what it has, then you can gradually step it up if necessary. You want to adjust everything as finely as possible and not take the sledgehammer approach.

OK, here’s the article…

<b>Should Football Require Creatine to Prevent Brain Concussion?</b>

Troy Aikman, the Dallas Cowboy quarterback, recently announced his retirement after suffering nine concussions including four in the last two seasons.

A recent survey of retired NFL football players shows that Troy probably made a good decision. In that study sponsored by the players association, 60% of players experienced at least one concussion during their playing career and 26% had suffered three or more concussions.

Players who had suffered concussions were compared to players without concussions. Those with concussions were found more likely to have neurologic problems including memory loss, speech or hearing impairments, numbness in their arms and legs, and headaches. (1)

Troy Aikman is just one of an estimated 300,000 people in the U.S. who suffer sports and recreational related head injuries each year.

Now an experiment by Dr. Steven Scheff at the University of Kentucky may provide an answer to help prevent the effects of these serious injuries.

Before an experimental head injury he fed a group of animals extra creatine in their diet to see if creatine would help protect their brain.

He found brain damage for the group taking creatine was reduced 50% compared to animals fed a regular diet. (2)

Creatine, the popular sports supplement, is widely used by athletes to gain strength and stamina. People suffering various neurodegenerative disorders such as Lou Gehrigs-ALS, Muscular Dystrophy, Multiple Sclerosis, Huntingtons, and other neurodegenerative disorders also use creatine supplements to slow the progression of their disease.

Doctors have recently discovered creatine deficiency disorders in children that result in mental retardation, muscle weakness, and other neurologic problems. These children are helped by creatine supplementation. This has lead many to understand that creatine is necessary for healthy muscle and nerve cell function. (3)

Can extra creatine help prevent damage from brain trauma as this and other experiments suggest? If this is so, then maybe creatine supplementation should be required for athletes in all contact sports.

Dr.Scheff says that while human clinical experiments need to be done, “I will tell you that I start taking creatine before I go skiing.”

Dr. Gregory J. O’Shanick, national medical director for the Brain Injury Association is quoted as saying; “It’s something that sounds extremely interesting and tantalizing”.

Every football coach, trainer, and team physician should be familiar with this landmark study and strongly consider creatine supplementation to prevent brain damage from concussions.

  1. Dr. Barry Jordan, Director of Brain Injury Program, Burke Rehabilitation Hospital, American Academy Neurology, 52nd Annual Meeting.

  2. Dietary supplement creatine protects against traumatic brain injury, Sullivan PG, Geiger JD, Mattson MP, Scheff SW, Ann Neurol 2000 Nov: 48:p.723-729.

  3. Brain creatine depletion: guanidinacetate methyltransferase
    deficiency (improving with creatine
    supplementation). Leuzzi V et. al., Neurology 2000 Nov 14:55(9): p. 1407-1409.

CoachJohn, I’m not so sure that there is a simple blanket prescription with creatine. So much depends on how the individual respond. Not everyone gets a pump or tightness, but they may get an increased duration of power. What would you do then?

With females, I think it depends on the girl. Are we talking about developed athletes?

It is better to test ones response to it and then make a decision as to whether it should be phased in or out early mid or late season.

As for taking it. Spoon it directly into your mouth and wash it down with water. I learnt this one years ago and used it ever since. It means you will get 100% of the dose with no solubility issues.


thats an interesting study and thanks for posting. i had heard (im pretty sure it was an interview on a mp3 file on the t-mag website) its one of these lonnie lowery saying that they did a study on meat eaters and non meat eaters on maintaining creatine levels.

they saturated both groups with creatine then (i think it was 30 days later) both groups creatine levels were re-measured and the meat eating group maintained 90% of the saturation.


You are correct. Lonnie did mention that on the t-mag website. It was on their one of their monthly experiments v experience audio articles.


I agree, creatine supplementation can be a very individualized response. But generally, for peaking, we have great responders basically go off; moderate responders taper down; and those who respond poorly tend not to bother in the first place. True, as well, we’ve had athletes stay on regular maint. doses thru peaking and odne fine. IF tightness is ANY issue we try to taper down or off.

As far as female athletes go, I’ve had little luck with creatine in HS/Coll. level women (11.90, 24.49, 56.24, HJers, hurdlers, etc) OR good HS athletes (under 13.0 100m). One exception - 800m woman (2:17) who was a former level 10 gymnast (background/foundation?). Not much luck with female swimmers, either (though less of an issue here). I don’t know…