on berardi’s latest article updates he says that his athletes take their creatine with a warm liquid like green tea.
anybody else do this? benefits?
ive always read that creatine should be taken with your first recovery drink post training?
I take it with greene tea - just for the taste
Creatine uptake is increased with caffeine…
Are you sure this is correct? Is this based on your personal observations, research? I read the exact opposite, in that caffeine negates the effect of creatine (Vanderburgh, 2002)??
Anyone else?
Green Tea is cool stuff man … I love it now … takes a while to get used to it - but it beats coffee for long term n/effects
i love green tea as well, its just that ive never taken it (creatine) anyway besides with a post workout recovery drink…
How do you guys drink your green tea most often, cold or hot or both?
I drink the green tea hot of course …
Creatine - I just bung it in the DWO and PWO drinks.
But incidently I’m using Musashi Ralph currently which has all the BCAA’s and Creatine included already so I don’t have to sorry about it much.
Oh -yeh -
D = (During)
i am no position to challenge berardi’s authority… it would be nice if he went into depth on why he prescribes creatine with green tea as opposed to PWO drinks???
and creatine with caffiene? ive heard people liken best results to both (PWO and w/caffiene) so im not sure which side of the fence im on with this one…
I also read an article that said caffeine negates the effects of creatine. It makes sense that it would negate creatines effects because caffeine is a diuretic(decreases the amount of water in your cells) while creatine tries to volumize cells by increasing their water uptake.
I would like some more proof on the subject though.
I drink mine cold, there is a company called Bubble Tease (http://www.bubbletease.com/) which make good green tea drinks. I prefer mine with Leechy flavour and crushed ice. Kinda nice, but it is an aquired taste.
I am inclined to bring this conversation back to the point made by Stevemac24. I am aware of Vandenberghe et al from 1996 that supports Stevemac24’s view, but I could not find the 2002 reference. There appear to be other studies (Doherty et al, Hespel et al) that show creatine and caffeine work well together, but the abstracts from these studies do not imply effects related directly to cosupplementation or absorption of creatine.
In Vandenberghe (1996), creatine and creatine/caffeine supplementation were compared in terms of muscle strength. It was shown that caffeine completely negated the performance benefits of creatine in this study.
Doherty et al (2002) did not compare using the same parameters. Doherty used exhaustive exercises (not anaerobic alactic - more likely lactic or aerobic) to evaluate creatine and caffeine consumption - which may have mislead readers to believe that caffeine consumption did not effect creatine’s positive influence on phosphocreatine (and, thus anaerobic alactic power).
Hespel et al (2002) also demonstrated that caffeine posed a performance advantage - contrary to Vandenberghe in the eyes of some readers. But, again, the parameters of assessment were not focused on anaerobic alactic performance. In this case, the focus was on relaxation rate of muscle.
It’s tough to invalidate the findings of Vandenberghe (1996) based on unrelated studies sited in more recent years. As a result, the prevailing assumption that caffeine is a deterrant to creatine supplementation still stands (in my humble view). Perhaps there exists other research that I have not yet viewed. I welcome further insights…
You are getting less nutrients-vitamins and minerals when you boil the green tea like most of you do. Much of the effects are lost when you do this…
I have heard this before, but I think the pertinent questions are, how much of a loss is it? Is it significant where it warrants attention? Does it make a difference, really?, since you probably get the “rest” from the rest of your diet anyway?
True you do get it back in your diet most of the time…I’m just going off info I learned listening to some Asian people.
I totally agree with Blinky. I believe Green tea is a diuretic, I know caffeine is! The reason you gain weight initially when taking creatine is water uptake, caffeine would negate this effect to some degree. I personally take creatine with real grape juice, ALA, glutamine and potassium together right after I lift and then about 40 minutes later I take my protein shake. You take glutamine and creatine together for synergy.
The only thing I can think of that would help creatine uptake in green tea is the antioxidants; comparingly, this would have a similar effect or better than ALA with creatine. Yet the question then becomes does the antioxidant effect outweigh the diuretic effect?
I apologize in advance for my lack of supporting literature for any assertments that I may add to the commentary.
I do believe that initial studies investigating – and subsequently proving – creatine’s effecitiveness as an ergogenic aid used tea – but not green tea – as the beverage of choice. If for no other reason, the temperature of the liquid would assist in dissolving the powder (creatine). As most of you well know, trying to mix (and dissolve) creatine in a cold medium is a task in and of itself, often leading to a decent portion of the powder being left in the glass, shaker, etc.
Also consider that the caffeine content of green tea is approximately 34mg per 6 oz. cup (or one tea bag), give or take. That’s about 33% the caffeine content found in a serving of coffee of the same size. My point is that the amount of caffeine may be negligible.
Some have suggested that caffeine “negates” creatine’s ergogenic properties because of its diuretic properties. I am not sure that I would agree with that statement. Yes, caffeine is a diuretic, and, yes, creatine is a cell volumizer. However, does caffeine draw water out of the extracellular space or the intracellular space (i.e., the muscle cell)? That’s a genuine question, as I would like to be enlightened.
In the overall scheme of things, I do not think that this is a big deal (i.e., taking your creatine with green tea).
Berardi uses Green Tea with creatine because the green tea makes it easier to dissolve the creatine at room temperature. Also the epigalloacatechin gallate in the green tea is a great antioxidant and has some fat burning properties, making it a helpful ergogenic on it’s own.
That Vandenberghe study always comes up when people mention creatine and caffeine.
For starters caffeine is a weak diuretic and a recent study showed that it does not cause significant dehydration or electrolyte imbalance during exercise.
Paluska SA (2003) Caffeine and exercise. Curr Sports Med Rep 2:213-219.
The Vandenberghe study is probably best known for it’s flawed design if anything! First it incorporated what is called a “crossover design”. In this type of study, one group takes creatine and then switches to a placebo a few weeks later while other group does the opposite. During each treatment performance tests are done. This allows for researchers to compare the same athletes (on creatine) to themselves (on placebo) a few weeks later.
The clowns who did this study only allowed three weeks between creatine / caffeine and placebo. Problem is that creatine, once loaded into the muscle, takes about four to six weeks – or more – to be eliminated.
What is also interesting about the study is that is showed that caffeine didn’t affect muscle creatine levels. So if muscle creatine levels remain unhindered by the caffeine, why didn’t the athletes improve their performance? Proably flawed design at work again. Since performance tests were conducted, the treatments could have affected both testing periods - making the data from the study almost meaningless. The short “washout” period in this study probably flawed the results allowing the subjects to have been benefitting from creatine supplementation throughout the testing even when they were performing as the placebo group. :rolleyes:
Finally according to Bryan Haycock of thinkmuscle.com - who I have a great deal of respect for - “Caffeine effects calcium ion kinetics within the muscle cell and can have dramatic effects on muscle contractility. Any study done comparing the effects of creatine with or without caffeine is flawed if it doesn’t include this confounding variable in its conclusions. A later study by Vanakoski (Vanakoski, 1998) looking at the effects of creatine on caffeine showed that creatine does not have any effects on the ergogenic effects of caffeine. This demonstrates the importance of being able to distinguish between the effects of creatine and caffeine when studying them in combination.”
I have heard this before as well. What I heard was that caffeine in coke/pepsi can effect the calcium absorption or something to that effect.