If it is more important to train the nervous system to be fast, does normal sprint training fulfill that? Is it possible/beneficial to do other training for the nervous system to teach it to fire faster and lead to improvements in speed? By the way, that sounds a little like overspeed training, which I know is generally not recommended, not because it would make the nervous system able to fire faster(if it does, I’m not sure), but because it is a little more dangerous and could change mechanics.
I’m thinking that normal training is sufficient. Comments?
sorry, but where exactly could I find charlie francis’ book? is it in stores like barnes and nobles? oh, and I see several books in the shop…which one is the “standard” to get? and no, i can’t get them all…since sports isn’t exactly my focus, my parent’s probably won’t let me get more than one considering their costs.
but say you have a precious few strands of fast twitch fiber to begin with…if you go about training wrong for a sport that NEEDS explosive movements (basically every ball sport), then you’re in trouble. I wanted to know so I had a better “perspectives” on my chances at excelling alongside my perhaps more genetically gifted teammates…
I think you’re probably more fast twitch proficient then you realize. From the sprint numbers I’ve seen on soccer players, which admittedly are limited, I would say the endurance in the sport is not conducive to optimum fast twitch expression and of course neither are the metabolic requirements for running a good mile…yet you still have a 34 inch vertical jump…not shabby at all.
The Charlie Francis training system I believe can be purchased from this site and it’s called “The Charlie Francis Training System”.
Actually, if you are looking to hypertrophy fast twitch muscle fibers then I would keep the rep ranges in the 3-4 area and go no more than 6 reps per set. After that you are just starting to hypertrophy slow twitch, which is what you’re trying to avoid. I know it sounds awkward, but consider an 6x4 or 8x4 routine in order to target fast twitch fibers specifically.
its more about load than rep range, 80% and above would do it. For ex. I’ve seen numerous times posted that rowers can do 90-95% of their 1RM several several times, and as well could ben because of his ability to recruit as many fibres as possible.
Ok now my thoughts.
Hypertrophy is a measure of repair from structural damage to a muscle. What caused this best? Eccentric actions, as well they hit the large motor units preferentially.
I remember I made a post about this type of training a while ago after reading CT’s book and trying to see if I could incorporate all the preferentially fast twitch recruiting methods.
As well rather than increasing reps and decreasing load why not just increase training density by decreasing rest times. ie one min between sets, this could lead to hypertrophy of the specific area.
hm, thanks for all the tips guys. one more question…
I read in “training principles for jumpers” that isometric exercises done for 5 seconds could greatly increase explosive power…how does that work? once i get this all logically sorted out i’m going to start putting together my program, so I want to use whatever I can use.
Decreasing the rest times should be managed carefully as this will not allow the strongest and fastest fibres to recover in time to be maximally recruited again. 2-3 mins will recruit the slower type II muscles, whilst the very fast type II fibres will be recovering. 3-5 mins should be the aim. Density does not favour optimal recovery of the fastest fast fibres generally speaking. You will get intermediate results. If you feel that the rcoveries are too long then try some self massage techniques to keep you alert and ready?
Remember you are trying to recruit more fibres, those fibres that would be called into action for example in extreme situations for very short periods, the ones that stop you from falling over when you suddenly stumble or are running away from danger or picking up a very heavy object to save another persons life. They are recruited in situations of high arousal and rested states with no fatigue.
martn 76 beat me to it. Fast Twitch fibers fatigue much faster than slow twitch, so after about rep 4 you’ve pretty much fatigued them to the point where you are now targeting mostly slow twitch muscle fibers. As far as reducing rest times, martn76 beat me to it again, but you need to allow the fast twitch fibers to recover fully before working out again, or else you are defeating the purpose.
Last years USATF level III info was outstanding…hurdlelove why not share your thoughts about training volume and type IIb fiber drop out…this stuff was very important and you seem to have the brains to explain it better.
I remembered a TV Special by Discovery Channel named:
Wonder Genetics.
In that special they show two kinds of runners,
first was the twin girls “Mile Runners” Avril &…
then they show Hank Palmer, a 17 years sprinter that was running under 11.0s since 16 years. They extracted a “piece” of muscle from legs of Hank Palmer to do some researchs about the muscle constitution in sprinters.
Hank was 90% fast fiber.
For me that TV Special was like a punch…because, it was in my first month of “sprinter career idea”…
Otherwise, i guess that special was like a “test of god”, something like: - If you watch this and continue with this “sprinter idea” well son, you are a valiant guy, so, lets run together !!!
After that, every time i heard about a new research or a reportage about genetics and sprinters, i prefer not read or not think about that…It is not fear, it is a question of believe in god and in hard & good trains.
okay, so this is what I understand so far…and yes, i’m currently training and “reaching for the stars” but I want to know the reason behind what I do…
Fast twitch = explosive movements = strength =>power
Fast twitch hypertrophy = 3-6 reps
The common rationalization behind the 3x8-ish hypertrophy phase is to build up muscle mass in preparation for strength training later and for more power “potential.” But wouldn’t a 3x8 routine hypertrophy the slow twitch as well? And being that the fast twitch contain the “power” potential, shouldn’t a “beginner” (a standard anaerobic sport athlete) train for hypertrophy of the fast twitch fibers first? Something like 6 x 4 (as Mister C said) would hypertrophy fast twitch fibers more effectively correct? Then why start out with a 3x8? what is the purpose of beefing up the slow twitch muscles?
should slow twitch hypertrophy be something left to running and field play?
I know it’s a little bit out of subject, but someone told me there was a way to estimate our % of fast twitch fiber… something like doing rep till failure at 80% of 1 RM.
I was able to perform 5 reps at 80%. So can someone estimate if I am fast twich or slow twitch dominant.
Do not worry too much about testing for fast fibers, concentrate on doing the correct sequence of training content of each session. You will recruit your fast fibres this way.
okay, well after doing a little browsing/searching around, i found this ( http://charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=994&highlight=pre+strength ) old thread. However, charlie says in there that the sub-5 rep thing should only be used if you’re already big - and i’m not. He says that higher reps should be used, therefore, in my case (i’m assuming this goes for any athlete, not just the olympic people), 8-10. How will an 8-10 rep set be any more efficient inducing hypertrophy than a lower, 5 or under rep set? Would the 5 reps not target/hypertrophy the fast twitch more?
The 8-10 rep set will induce more hypertrophy that a 5 rep set as a general rule. Exceptions might be when you’re doing the set of 5 at a really slow speed.
hm…i’ll do a little research, but wouldn’t a 5 rep set fire off more fast twitch fibers? or do they not work that way?
because it seems that, if as you say - that going beyond 5 reps will start recruiting slow twitch, that you’d “get more out of” your fast twitch portion of your muscles by going lower rep.
i actually brought up this question because there’s a commercial (gimmick?) program that I saw that gives reason for its hypertrophy phase as “building up a solid slow-twitch base to allow for better strength gains.” i didn’t understand how hypertrophy of slow twitch (or anything slow twitch) would give way to better strength gains.
hm…or does it have to do with the time under tension thing? what if you still emphasized the eccentric portion (you always do that don’t you?) in the 5 rep set?
EDIT: okay, found this on a davedraper.com:
"1) Hypertrophy caused by an increase in energy substances in the muscle cell (such as creatine and glycogen). This type of hypertrophy is caused by training that is high in volume (8-12 reps) with limited rest in between sets. This type of training enhances growth hormone output and lactic acid production. (If you stop training that is the reason that the muscles shrink so fast. The amount of the stored substances inside the muscle cell just go back to normal and the muscle shrinks).
Hypertrophy caused by an increase in the diameter of the muscle fiber (actual muscle growth). It seems that this type of muscle growth stays longer after a period of no training than the first type. I don’t know if there are any studies out there that will back this up, but based on empirical evidence, this seems to be the case. This type of growth is caused by training that emphasizes long rests in between sets (3 minutes) and low reps (5-8). This type of training enhances testosterone level output. It seems like it takes longer to achieve this type of growth than the first one, but it is well worth it. "
so you’re talking about #1 then? it seems as though hypertrophy #2 would be more “beneficial”…and probably more effective strengthwise. why not just train for number 2 hypertrophy from the start.
oh, and if that’s not what you meant, sorry. correct me please
EDIT2: oh, and these are rather hastily drawn conclusions, i’ll get back to them another day…i was just curious so i did a quick search. now that i think of it the “#1 and #2” hypertrophy kinda sounds like that sacromere and (the other one) hypertrophy, one being more functional than the other. so now i’m a little confused…i’ll edit/post again later. thanks.
Astromonkeyx, I was talking about time under tension for the five rep sets. An example would be an explosive eccentric movement then a slow concentric movement and then a pause and then repeat. I do agree that you should train functional hypertrophy (#2) from the start, but others believe that you can use structural hypertropy as a base to induce functional hypertrophy. This also correlates with teh strength to transition to power phases of weight training. In that model, you start out with high reps (8-12) to gain intial stength and structural mass, and then you slowly work the reps down and the sets up through the transition phase and then theoretically in the power phase you start to develop the functional hypertrophy using your prior structural gains as base. Also, beginning weightlifters and those new to weight training benefit from high reps (8-12) because they arent yet advanced enough to handle such heavy loads and they adapt quickly to higher reps (initially).
