I use a cluster of doubles with two minutes rest early in the season to spark a strength phase when planting growth seeds in a program.
Pakewi…are you getting my emails?
I find lower rep ranges and overall moderate numbers of total lifts per session interfere less and actually help the special endurance of my swimmers, while higher ranges and numbers always seem to impair the second half of the race.
Thoughts?
Pakewi,
Are you referring to doing heavy singles with relatively long rest between reps such as:
110kg power clean - 1 rep - 45 sec rest - 1 rep - 45 sec rest - 1 rep - 45 sec rest, etc. etc for 8 to 10 reps.
I know of a strength coach who does these types of routines and swears by them.
I would be interested to hear more about protocols and progressions for these types of workouts. I have my own ideas about what I would do.
Thanks.
Pakewi, in my view, the approach which you describe is more well suited to a more advanced trainee who is trying to develop certain components of muscular strength (eg max strength, strength speed, relative strength, speed strength, dynamic/explosive strength endurance). As an athlete of lower classification has not yet developed the levels of muscular coordination to effectively perform low repetition work with significant load.
Additionally, we must consider what the objective is. As much of the repetition method of training is well suited for pre/rehabilitation. Accordingly, higher repetitions with sub maximal weight may prove to be more optimal for certain rotator cuff, erector, etc, work for swimmers (as I am sure you are already aware of).
So as you stated, ‘general strength training’ surely lends itself to the utilization of more sets less repetitions, however, we are better able to define the loading parameters the more specifically we can target our objective (eg which specific component of ‘general strength training’ are we trying to develop)
Pakewi, will you be attending the Verkhoshansky/Yessis seminar?
What about John Davis - great weightlifter. 10 x 2. Always trained within his limits similar to Ben Johnson. Based his training on how he felt (RPE)
i agree with your first paragraph…
i think Bompa refers to it as “Conversion to Muscular Endurance”, but i always had trouble fitting it to training and i never did; where would you put it? after a Sp End session? as a separate session in the week having an extra Sp End one (if it works that well as he claims)? what’s more specific than running?
unless as Charlie says there are injury issues… in the same way you use the drills in bad weather situations…
what you are saying sounds interesting; since there is special endurance in the event itself, training the same system in the weight room again might prove too much for Sp. End’s full development; i suppose it relates to the maintenance phase -as referred in this site- although i am not sure where exactly you would fit such sessions in the season and for what purpose (if not for max str/maintenance); Clemson said it could be used as str base (?)
could you please expand on this?
Nikolouski,
my reasoning is exactly on these tracks,and I was hoping someone would have driven discussion towards this.
What I actually find is that the 2nd part of the 100m swimming races is more a matter of strength and “staying strong” more than any purely endurance related issue once swimming speed is in place. Nothing as contemporary training with higher rep ranges (I would say higher than 3 )in the gym seems to interfere as much with the performance in the second half of a 100m race in the pool in my experience, hence my first suspect of a strong conflict for the use of the same energy envelop,more than any more locally muscular related issue .
When I talk about singles and doubles I refer to big compound lifts as primary work, not to auxiliary/prehab exercise as I would consider erectors and rotator cuff exercises,and which I agree would be better served by classical higher rep ranges (6 to 8 in my experience).
As for the specific component, wouldn’t you think we might successfully target any portion of the force time curve while employing mostly singles and doubles while carefully managing the volume,intensity, and density variables?
I would love to come and join the seminars, but at the present it doesn’t look like I will have the chance to do it!
Let’s keep this discussion up though!
In regards to the various points along the curve, not related to an endurance component, I absolutely agree with you.
I do, however, believe that higher repetition lifts are valuable not only for pre/rehab and increased cross-section, but also for increased capillarization/mitochondrial content. Thus, for athletes who participate in events which border on different bioenergy systems (eg glycolitic/oxidative 400m, 800m runners, 200m swimmers, rowers, etc) I believe that higher repetition training is warranted, aside from the work capacity developed from the execution of sport practice itself.
As far as the strength/power development activities are concerned; however, there is very little place for higher repetition work for the purposes of developing starting/acceleration/expolsive/speed strength/strength speed/relative/limit strength
although i can’t relate to swimming as i am not an expert -far from it actually- i can see an easier way to further develop and control/monitor this kind of training via the event itself rather than gym work; especially if strength -and speed therefore, as you say- are there
the only think i am not clear about is the period you would use such an approach; have you found it’s something that can be maintained for most of the season, since swimmers may have quite a few competitions and events to take part in? or perhaps it’s a case of alternating recovery times, depending on the focus of the phase?
thanks!
if i may, could this be achieved though solely via the event itself? why do you think this would difficult and extra high rep work would be needed?
thanks!
Certainly, the work capacity/strength endurance component will be developed by way of the event itself, to a certain and very specific degree. I do ,however, believe that certain higher repetition weights protocols are warranted in certain instances.
For example: I know that Louie Simmons employed high repetition (low load) squat training for approximately 40-50 second intervals (to correlate with race duration) for Butch Reynolds when he did some training at Westside in the 80s.
This type of training can be very effective when event specific training cannot be performed (eg when a runner has shin splints)
I do believe there is merrit to performing weight work for durations equivalent to the durations encountered in certain sporting situations. The idea is to no way replicate any aspect of the sport skill, but rather to increase muscular conditioning under time parameters similar to sporting requirements.
This is obviously more of a general conditioning tool, and the applications are more appropriate to strength endurance applications than high intensity/short duration strength/power development applications.
My statement is based part in personal experience/application as well as hypothetical, as I have not employed this technique with an abundance of athletes.
For the AA phase it might be worth considering as the short rest may have some limited hypertrophy effects and this will also condition an athlete better so that when the normal rest intervals are used i.e. 3-5 min then the athlete probably will increase his 1RM. However, I am firm believer in at least 3min rest for an exercise such as the bench press and when I am lifting doubles and singles I prefer 4min and when I say am an advocate of the Bulgarian Training principles one of things I would advocate is the increase in Low Rep Volume for the Strength Lifts not clean/ snatches!
The idea of increasing volume is very confusing; as such, athletes assume they must always have their 1RM continually rising! This is incorrect, as a begginer and intermediate athletes you can stick to say 4 sets and continually increase your wts in those 4 sets while mainting the same amount of reps. At the elite level of wt lifting even periodization reaches its limits and that is why I love the Bulgarians idea of increasing the amount of sets you do in an exercise while maintaining the lifting percentages.
For example; my lifts right now consist of,
Warmup wts then,
3x345
3x345
2x355
3x355
Now in the past I have stuck by this routine; however, I am now stagnating so I will increase the number of sets to 5 for the next 4 weeks and hopefully see my 1RM increase from 405lbs to 415lbs in the bench. The protocol would look something like this,
3x345
3x345
2x355
2x355
2x355
Note: Best 1RM of this year is 405lbs current 1RM is 395lbs.
Noticed I will increase the 355lb to 3 sets thereby increasing the volume.
The answer to this question is to look at the CFTS system; for example, the tempo day is there for this specific reason to increase the capillarization of the muscle. This can be achieved with wts as well although I would recommend this only in the AA phases which the first one is in the first 7-8 weeks of the new track year Sept-Oct.
James,
I remember hearing Louie talk about that method on one of his videos and like you I have mixed feelings about it.
It does seem to make some sense, but at the same time it could be completely useless. I am not really sure what to make of that method but at the present time I am hesitant to use it.
If you end up trying it with more athletes I would really appreciate you letting me know how it works out.
What I meant is I am having interesting results with a whole lot of swimmers of different ages,backgrounds,levels etc,using low volumes/low rep ranges of strength lifts and relatively high volumes but still rather low reps (per single set) ranges of med ball throws, and with an extremely careful management of the max strength versus special endurance focus in training.
In regard of the time method mentioned to develop endurance,I would always stick to Charlie’s advice to use it only if no other better option is available,like in case of an injury.
i still struggle to find a place for them within a week of a healthy athlete… just practically, if you could, how would you incorporate this to a week’s programme? it seems to me like an additional session of similar nature, i.e., too much of it…
it might be the case perhaps to use some of it before you start the Sp End session, for example, but still just an idea, as i am not sure about this either, as the focus at that moment will still be on other aspects
in case of injuries, i agree!
you might be able to “increase muscular conditioning under time parameters similar to sporting requirements”, but would these be specific enough to the intensity of the event? and if not, why adding such extra loads?
i suppose, your last paragraph supports my points and perhaps the place of such methods earlier in the season, if at all
sorry, but i can’t figure a place for it, as i said; if you could refer to a specific example…
thanks!
i would separate the role and purpose of the tempo work and that of weights of the rep range you are suggesting; tempo is not there only for capillarisation development
besides, if you can achieve this via tempo (and you can) why bother with weights for the same purpose independently of the phase you are in?
Because as Tudor Bompa suggests that you should increase the strength of the ligaments and tendons before the muscles; therefore, this is done with progressively increase the intensity and lowering the volume at this same time you will be doing hypertrophy work and this will lead to an increase in muscle cross-section. The added bonus is that you increase the capillerization of the muscle as well!