Classic sit ups not bio-mechanicly relevent?

Even with the same weight ball (within reason), power can go up with speed of movement and condition with increased reps.

Practical example from my high level D-1 players:

In the January through pre-spring ball training block I wrote for my skill guys we, at our peak, worked up to, after performing linear and positional tempo runs/drills (totaling 2000yds small skill, 1200yds big skill), 1500 abdominal repetitions followed by 900 med ball wall rebounds.

This was performed twice per week.

Due to the muscles of the abdomen operating much more so in a stabilizer capacity, whether concerning collisions, battles, sprinting (during American football field based actions) I selected to have my guys perform the totality of abdominal exercise in the form of very small amplitude dynamic movements in various positions (McGill variants, dynamic front/side isometric supports, trunk rotations within 30 degrees either way, etcetera).

The repetitions themselves involve dynamic movement; however, the movement amplitudes are very small. This could be considered oscillatory isometrics.

The med ball wall rebounds are performed with 10, 12, and 15lb balls respective to the strength of the player; and again, the movement amplitudes are, while larger then the abdominal variants, rather small.

I should note that the med ball wall drills I have my guys perform have them standing within 1 meter of the wall and while the frequency of the throws is fairly high the effort itself if extensive.

The entire training session, on those days, goes, in the following order:

  • warm up approx 20-30min
  • tempo runs/drills approx 30min
  • abs/med ball rebounds approx 30min
  • auxiliary resistance training approx 30min

It must be noted that we worked up to the mentioned volumes over the course of weeks and, while challenging, my guys handled it in a routine fashion.

Had an observer walked into the weight room, at the end of the session, only to have seen the auxiliary work, they would have in no way thought that any of the previous work had occurred.

Needless to say, our work capacity is tremendous, both in the alactic and aerobic regimes, and recovery is paramount and accounted for in the weekly plan.

A lot of work in a short time period, 2000yds tempo, 1500 abs, 900 tosses!!

900 throws and 1500 abs in 30 minutes?

30 throws + 50 abs per minute for 30 minutes?

Looks like more on the computer screen.

Take note of what I said regarding the small movement amplitudes and high frequencies at which the repetitions are conducted- very conducive to accomplishing a large volume of work in short order at an extensive effort level.

80 repetitions (30 throws + 50 abs) is more than 1 rep a second for 30 minutes. I don’t see what exercises could possibly allow for this rate over that period of time.

Don’t get too wrapped up on the minutia. Remember I stated approximately regarding the time frames. It’s possible that we went beyond 30min, though not by much, during those peak weeks when volume was at its height.

A lot of time is made up on the med ball wall rebounds. Due to the athlete standing in such close proximity to the wall, the frequency is quite high ( I would guess up to 3 maybe 4 repetitions per second on some of the variants)

The point is that it’s very doable to generate high volumes of this type of quality work in a short amount of time.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t see it. If those sorts of things can be done I certainly question both what you’re getting out of it (4 rebounds a second? Post vid–that has to be the shortest rebound distance ever) and what movements could even be done at a high enough rate to achieve those volumes.

And then it becomes, what is optimal? Wasting time with 30 minutes of poor exercise performance to get your heart rate up (could easily be done just going on an exercise bike or elliptical or running) or spending time to actually challenge the musculature?

In the past, I did weighted crunches and ‘Dragon-flags’ (a classic Bruce Lee exercise) on a decline bench. They did not improove my sprinting speed.

However, when hopping and sprint volumes are consistent, I get great abdominal definition, and more speed in my running. And yes, even a 15 minute jog (once in awhile) makes me feel much better the next day (recovery factors ) than any amount of classic floor exercises such as sit ups etc…

In gluteal hip hyper extension tests, sprinters were the athletes that faired better (relative to their bodyweight) than all other athletes, including powerlifters. This was despite the fact that powerlifters could squat a lot more weight (including relative to their bodyweight.)
But the sprinters find hip-hyper-extension exercises very easy.
If you were to lay on your back, and push your hips up with a single bent leg, and the other leg elevated, you would find it very easy, and could bust out 20 reps without a problem. This is because you have done lots of sprinting, which from a ‘neural’ stand-point, is the best hip-hyper-extension exercise in the world. (Where as the squat is just hip extension.)

A lot of strength gain is mainly neural. A number of field athetes such as hammer throwers, can power clean ridiculous weights, comparable to Olympic lifters, despite no where near the rehearsal level of that spacific lift.

You also have to consider, that you can do more reps of running contacts in less time, than sit up contractions.

Throwing a basket-ball ( a med ball would have been a little better ) helped me to increase my speed. The one slight advantage of a basketball, is that it bounces back to you from the wall quicker than a med ball, so your reflexes are even more alert, and you can get more reps done in ess time. A med-ball will develope a little more power.

However, in sprinting, a lot of the power is expressed through the rythm and neural co-ordination. The rythm (neural) magnifies the power in sprinting, not just the ‘strength per se’ contribution. The strength needs to be reasonably relevent in my opinion, or the exercise is not worth doing. Even though niether are classed as spacific, I would contend that med ball throws are more relevent to running than sit ups. Even push ups are probably better than sit ups.

But lots of forwards hopping would be better than both the above exercises combined.

What we get out of it (relative to the movements we perform against the wall): dynamic stabilization of glenohumeral joint and shoulder girdle, arms, and abdominal musculature in general, along with posterior musculature (erectors, glutes, hamstrings) along with improved general work capacity.

The reactive/elastic nature of the exercise ensures additional benefits to speed-power athletes; even though the physiological nature is extensive.

Research dynamic stabilization as well as perturbation training and it will become more clear to you.

I highly recommend this type of exercise regardless if the objective is high sports performance or the personal training of pedestrians. The actual ‘feel’ of these types of med ball wall rebounds is really nice. Similar to tempo in that it’s challenging in the moment yet very fast to recover from with the additional novel result/sensation of blood flow through all of the active musculature throughout the upper body.

Low cost: high benefit is always a winner for me.

Video probably won’t happen as typing is about the extent of my motivation right now.

Speaking of med-ball rebounds, has anyone tried the “Passback” football. I just bought a couple of these for our receivers to work on their hands. These things work great. You can throw a spiral at a wall, and the thing spirals back to you. The ball is weighted properly and feels like a real football.

Lots of fun. Highly recommend it. I personally use it in the squash courts near my weight room just to entertain myself.

Most of my ab work is of this nature. I can easily rack up 300-400 reps in about 5-6min.

Video of a couple of my players performing the ground based abdominal work and med ball rebounds in real time; 1 series each.

They go at their own pace in terms of rest interval between movements and reps average 40-50 per move with a couple exceptions in which the movement is performed for half the reps on one side then half on the other.

lol to each their own. I’d rather spend my time doing something productive than aiming to hit the highest possible numbers. Still didn’t hit the averages claimed anyway.

Correct, to each their own; however, perhaps you want to re-think your words as it seems you are implying that the work is not productive and that the goal is hitting the highest possible numbers.

You are incorrect on both counts and your comment regarding the averages claimed implies you have repeatedly overlooked the fact that I implied the work is completed in “approximate” amounts of time. Additionally, this video was taken today, during spring ball, so the volume is greatly decreased relative to where it was last block.

Me sharing this information has nothing to do with ‘look how many reps we perform’ and everything to do with look how easy it is to accumulate a higher volume of quality work that offers multiple benefits at a low cost.

Volume of tapping a medicine ball against a wall with a 2" ROM =/= volume of classical abdominal exercises as discussed in CFTS and elsewhere.

Might want to use a multiplier of .25

As I stated earlier, regarding the limited movement amplitudes: it would benefit you to study the benefits of dynamic stabilization and perturbation training.

Similarly, I’d recommend that you give this type of exercise a shot a I think you would continue to include it in your own training.

Regarding how to account for the workload, it would be rookie on your behalf to assume I haven’t carefully done this already and rookie for me not to have carefully done this already.

I consulted with John Gray Ph D, who studied under Stuart McGill, 6 years ago. Rest assured that there’s nothing careless happening on my behalf.

To see what we do, get the med ball workout video from the site store.

Love the exercises though could do with a few posteral changes in all but the last exercise, great position to do the squats in.

My humble opinion