Classic sit ups not bio-mechanicly relevent?

[Goose232]

[QUOTE=pierrejean;232637]The purpose of doing bunch of abdominals is not to improve speed but is part to a fitness enveloppe which includes coordination/strength/flexibility/therapy orientated, etc drills, a general and non-specific, albeit individualised, work for sprinting.
QUOTE]

I never did get this ‘fitness from sit ups / ab exercises’ concept.

Surely, when it comes to fitness, a simple jogging session, or a sprint session, forwards hops, or even just multiple reps of ‘strides’ would develope the fitness envelope greater than any amount of gym type abdominal/core exercises.

And the abs get good work from running anyway. How can an exercise where you lay on your back and just curl the torso, match the fitness gained from running? Maybe I’m missing something.

Ben Johnson’s 1 mile warm-up jog, or John Regis occasionally jogging for 2 miles, probably did as much for their over all fitness, as the high rep abdominal work. I honestly don’t know how one thousand sit ups is better than one thousand running strides.
Yet so many sprinters do these abdominal exercises, so I’m curious as to why. There must be a reason, or is it really a fear that ‘if left alone’ it could lead to problems? And so they macho their way thru high numbers of circuits, cause they don’t believe the track/field work is enough?

And as for occasionally needing to train indoors, why would sit ups be needed, if you can skip / jump rope, or even mimmick the jump rope action without even needing a rope?

Sure, high rep numbers in core exercises would build fitness, but there are far less miserable exercises, and far kinder on the lower back / psoas, that can get a very good job done on the fitness tangent.

I know you are not necesarily recomending high abdominal reps sitting on the floor, you are saying that ‘you need to do what needs to be done at a given time’ etc, I agree with that. But I just think there are better options than high rep sit ups, but don’t know for deffinate.

[TNT]

@Goose232

No, she would have done them at a faster tempo. When doing ultra high numbers, nobody would have the patience to do them that slow. She probably used momentum, and the psoas would have been doing a lot of the work. A lot of athletes do half between a sit up and a crunch at about 1 rep per second. Some times not going all the way up, and not going all the way down.
Don’t forget that Flo-Jo had a comparitavely short and light torso, compared to me and you.

Marion Jones crunches were often done with a light med ball in hands above chest, and using a slight arm swing, could add momentum to her crunches. And they were done at faster than 1 repetition per second, so no ‘squeeze’ at the top. But the number of reps creates a burn.

Football / soccer player, Christiano Ronaldo, regulary does 3000 sit ups a day. But I doubt he could cover the 100m in under 11 seconds electronicly. His speed is slightly over-rated, as he is quick on the ball, change of direction speed, agiliy, quick feet etc… but his straight line top-end speed would not have matched Theiry Henry’s etc.

So what’s the point of using momentum??? What is this corssfit???

In high school, my younger bother did 1234 sit-ups and still holds the school record. He needed a pass from the PE teacher because it went into the next class session. 1234 sit-ups = more than 1 hour. My calculations are not way off.

Anyone have the guts to prove me wrong??? Didn’t think so.

TNT

[pierrejean]

[quote="“Goose232”]

@pierrejean

The purpose of doing bunch of abdominals is not to improve speed but is part to a fitness enveloppe which includes coordination/strength/flexibility/therapy orientated, etc drills, a general and non-specific, albeit individualised, work for sprinting.
QUOTE]

I never did get this ‘fitness from sit ups / ab exercises’ concept.

Surely, when it comes to fitness, a simple jogging session, or a sprint session, forwards hops, or even just multiple reps of ‘strides’ would develope the fitness envelope greater than any amount of gym type abdominal/core exercises.

And the abs get good work from running anyway. How can an exercise where you lay on your back and just curl the torso, match the fitness gained from running? Maybe I’m missing something.

Ben Johnson’s 1 mile warm-up jog, or John Regis occasionally jogging for 2 miles, probably did as much for their over all fitness, as the high rep abdominal work. I honestly don’t know how one thousand sit ups is better than one thousand running strides.
Yet so many sprinters do these abdominal exercises, so I’m curious as to why. There must be a reason, or is it really a fear that ‘if left alone’ it could lead to problems? And so they macho their way thru high numbers of circuits, cause they don’t believe the track/field work is enough?

And as for occasionally needing to train indoors, why would sit ups be needed, if you can skip / jump rope, or even mimmick the jump rope action without even needing a rope?

Sure, high rep numbers in core exercises would build fitness, but there are far less miserable exercises, and far kinder on the lower back / psoas, that can get a very good job done on the fitness tangent.

I know you are not necesarily recomending high abdominal reps sitting on the floor, you are saying that ‘you need to do what needs to be done at a given time’ etc, I agree with that. But I just think there are better options than high rep sit ups, but don’t know for deffinate.

I said it’s part of a fitness envelope, not the only aspect. Also, BJ or JR weren’t asked to chose between abs and running, they did both! Anyway, go with us for our indoor core circuit which has a repertoire of about 50 exercises (we don’t do them all), or our 300 abs with or without med ball performed after tempo, or the tempo runs with abs btw reps, you will see it’s really part of the fitness build up for us. Looking at the global picture, there are bridges btw those core exercises, the runnings, the throws, the jumps and the therapy, as well as pedagogical considerations.

[speedster12]

You are talking about sit-ups. The thousands of reps came from many exercises. Your time is off.

@TNT

So what’s the point of using momentum??? What is this corssfit???

In high school, my younger bother did 1234 sit-ups and still holds the school record. He needed a pass from the PE teacher because it went into the next class session. 1234 sit-ups = more than 1 hour. My calculations are not way off.

Anyone have the guts to prove me wrong??? Didn’t think so.

TNT

[RB34]

[quote="“pierrejean,post:521,topic:40404”]

@Goose232"

I said it’s part of a fitness envelope, not the only aspect. Also, BJ or JR weren’t asked to chose between abs and running, they did both! Anyway, go with us for our indoor core circuit which has a repertoire of about 50 exercises (we don’t do them all), or our 300 abs with or without med ball performed after tempo, or the tempo runs with abs btw reps, you will see it’s really part of the fitness build up for us. Looking at the global picture, there are bridges btw those core exercises, the runnings, the throws, the jumps and the therapy, as well as pedagogical considerations.

My question is this, how important is it to perform high volume ab work if the athlete is sprinting-jumping-throwing-lifting? I find ab work to be extremely boring and usually slack on it a lot. Seems like even at the lower levels athletes are performing 1000-1500 reps of abs weekly.

[star61]

I don’t think there are many, if any, on this board that can do situps at 1/sec for anything over 100 situps. And I can’t see any valid reason to do 30 sets of 100 situps even if its spread out over the day. Its not close to being specific to sprinting and there are better ways to develop fitness that take a lot less time.

[bobsanchez4321]

I did 1000 situps, 1000 push ups, and 1000 squats every night for 3 weeks straight…it pretty much took over my life. At the very best, I could knock out the push ups and squats in around 50 minutes by doing 20 of each on the minute every minute. The sit-ups, on the other hand, took FOREVER. The most I ever did continuously was 505 and that took 30 minutes nonstop. These exercises usually ended up taking hours upon hours because I broke it down into smaller chunks.

[RB34]

@bobsanchez4321

I did 1000 situps, 1000 push ups, and 1000 squats every night for 3 weeks straight…it pretty much took over my life. At the very best, I could knock out the push ups and squats in around 50 minutes by doing 20 of each on the minute every minute. The sit-ups, on the other hand, took FOREVER. The most I ever did continuously was 505 and that took 30 minutes nonstop. These exercises usually ended up taking hours upon hours because I broke it down into smaller chunks.

Were you a beast after those 3 weeks?

[bobsanchez4321]

Doing it helped me regain some muscular development that I had lost from not lifting weights for over 6 months. I did end up losing weight though. I went from mid 190’s to 187. It made me look a lot more lean and defined and I was already very lean to begin with.

[Charlie_Francis]

[quote="“Goose232”]

@pierrejean

The purpose of doing bunch of abdominals is not to improve speed but is part to a fitness enveloppe which includes coordination/strength/flexibility/therapy orientated, etc drills, a general and non-specific, albeit individualised, work for sprinting.
QUOTE]

Ben Johnson’s 1 mile warm-up jog, or John Regis occasionally jogging for 2 miles, probably did as much for their over all fitness, as the high rep abdominal work. I honestly don’t know how one thousand sit ups is better than one thousand running strides.

I know you are not necesarily recomending high abdominal reps sitting on the floor, you are saying that ‘you need to do what needs to be done at a given time’ etc, I agree with that. But I just think there are better options than high rep sit ups, but don’t know for deffinate.

Sit ups equal jogging?

[rainy.here]

@TNT

So what’s the point of using momentum??? What is this corssfit???

In high school, my younger bother did 1234 sit-ups and still holds the school record. He needed a pass from the PE teacher because it went into the next class session. 1234 sit-ups = more than 1 hour. My calculations are not way off.

Anyone have the guts to prove me wrong??? Didn’t think so.

TNT

I once did 1000 sit ups in a row. It took me about 30 minutes.

[speedster12]

we are not talking strictly about sit-ups.

@star61

I don’t think there are many, if any, on this board that can do situps at 1/sec for anything over 100 situps. And I can’t see any valid reason to do 30 sets of 100 situps even if its spread out over the day. Its not close to being specific to sprinting and there are better ways to develop fitness that take a lot less time.

[stilljd_5]

I have to question if they were a true situp or a crunch, a terminology mix up maybe

[speedster12]

they used a ton of exercises, not just sit-ups crunches but bicycle kicks, med ball work and plenty more. Many of the reps do not come all the way up like traditional sit-ups.

@stilljd_5

I have to question if they were a true situp or a crunch, a terminology mix up maybe

[stilljd_5]

sure would teach the lactic system to work

[100m001]

@star61

My main problem with the ‘thousands’ thing is the time involved 30min/1000. .

I don’t see any problem with time when you are a professional athlete. Once track practice and weight room work is over, you have HOURS to kill before the next day starts.

[100m001]

@Goose232

I honestly don’t know how one thousand sit ups is better than one thousand running strides.
Yet so many sprinters do these abdominal exercises, so I’m curious as to why. There must be a reason, or is it really a fear that ‘if left alone’ it could lead to problems?

Have you ever tried it?

For the first time in my life last year I just jumped into doing 800 reps of ab work (with a 18lbs med ball) a week, and in about 2-4 weeks in, I felt a difference in my sprinting, as in, I felt I had more stability when I ran and my reflexes were much more sharp and crisp. Also, the looks of my mid section changed to match the rest of my body in that of an athletic appearance.

You figure there has got to be a reason why such an old fitness technique (med ball sit ups) has been around as a staple for such a long time.

[star61]

@100m001

…For the first time in my life last year I just jumped into doing 800 reps of ab work (with a 18lbs med ball) a week…

This seems much more reasonable than 1000’s of unresisted situps. A little over 100 reps per day, even 200 reps per day, with resistance seems a much more effecient way to work the abs.

[100m001]

@star61

This seems much more reasonable than 1000’s of unresisted situps. A little over 100 reps per day, even 200 reps per day, with resistance seems a much more effecient way to work the abs.

Well yea, you got to find what works best for you… In my case, being that I don’t get paid to run I think dedicating 800-2000 reps of med ball is enough to get me in the game if I’m good enough. If I was getting paid, I would be doing 4k a week with no complaints or gripes about it.

[RB34]

@100m001

Well yea, you got to find what works best for you… In my case, being that I don’t get paid to run I think dedicating 800-2000 reps of med ball is enough to get me in the game if I’m good if I’m good enough. If I was getting paid, I would be doing 4k a week with no complaints or gripes about it.

You guys are dedicated, I’m probably doing 200 abs per week.