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What is his background, where did he learn his stuff.

I guess in their parts, stuff is good, but the whole programs is too much exposure. Nobody could possible recover from all this.

Nor could you figure out how to fix it!

You have to focus on the limiting factors of the sport - the things that can not be developed on the ice - the qualities that will impact performance improvement.

This program tries to hit everything including the kitchen sink!

It’s an issue when some (in this case) the Dad does not know good from bad, apples from oranges and so on.

They can’t see long term results when they walk into a facility (though the dad should be able to see that through his son’s results with you) they only see cones, gadgets, toys and so on that we know don’t mean much in developing an athlete but they don’t. They see what’s on the surface and not much else-it’s very superficial.

Because they don’t know enough about the subject matter they believe that simplicity and low to moderate volumes can’t be enough to be an effective program-wrong again.

They also reason that if a coach is employed by team x and they are in some top league then he must be the best. Wrong-not only is he possibly not the best but he might not even be all that competent but then the guy who hired him likely knows little of the subject of s & c either.

Ok It sounds like I need to get in the area of S&C in hockey in my neck of the woods. There’s no way I can do worse than this guy plus I know for a fact that most of the people up here drive miles an miles to train. So I may decide to but I will definately try to pick you guys brain before I decide to ( Number 2, Pioneer, ESTI, Speedcoach, etc.) if thats cool cause unlike OTHER coaches Id like to know what Im looking for and at before I jump into something and looking like a FOOL and not know Im talking about.

After all I didnt know jack about hoop but now Im working with several guys not only in college but who play overseas so I must have did something right. (It didnt hurt having a former 9 year nba vet as the assistant coach of the team either to pick his brain either)

[QUOTE=Highlander;240149]After all I didnt know jack about hoop but now Im working with several guys not only in college but who play overseas so I must have did something right. (It didnt hurt having a former 9 year nba vet as the assistant coach of the team either to pick his brain either)[/QUOTE

Its just problem solving skills - if your good at that and have common sense you will be able to make a big difference!

It helps to know the demands of the game. I look at everything from the most simple to the more complex. My one player is a top rated 95 in the USA. He is 15 yrs old and we have worked together since he was 10. Back in the beginning he was doing bodyweight exercises and light dumbells with his older sisters. At 13, we started doing real resistance work. My goal was just to increase his organism strength. We did basic movements higher reps. He has always been emotionally mature, so we were building on things. He squatted weight so effortlessly that it was scary. He box squatted 225 for 10 easy in 7th grade. Going into 9th grade, he was squatting more than some of my college football players. This year, I peeled him back on lower body while getting him stronger through his upper body all while trying to minimize hypertrophy. He is 5’10" 175 and he benched 195x3 the other day. I don’t really care about numbers, just that the trend is up year after year. His rowing strength is of importance because I worry about shoulder injuries and posture due to nature of the sport. Under our program he has been the leading scorer every year in Tier 1 hockey on a national champion team. What I am most proud of is he has never missed a practice, game, or shift due to injury. God willing, he has the tools to go big time. His family advisor(agent) reps 20+ NHL players and think he will be an elite NHL forward. I know next year he will likely be on US team out of Ann Arbor so it may be my last summer with him.

I am so used to being under estimated for what I do. Nothing sexy, no fancy gadgets just practical methods I have learned from the greats like Charlie and Ian. Add to that 25+ years in the weight rooms and sport, I feel like I may know a bit about this athletic prep thing. It is so irritating when people think because someone is employed by a team they must know more than us private sector guys. I never wanted to do that. I made more money than 90% of these guys and did it on my own terms. We have owned 2 facilities and still, because I don’t pull out all the latest gadgets, I am questioned. I just tell parents, look at the scholarships and combine results. Our kids are routinely some of the fastest and all I use is cones and a stop watch. No FastTwitch 7000 proprioceptive unstable surface speed generator proven to make your kid 262% faster in university studies. Sorry couldn’t resist being a smartass.

:smiley: LMBO! Well said! I get the exact same thing. Like you I dont pull out all gadgets (ladders, chutes, weight vests, etc) and just get results. I think the biggest injury I ever had with 1 of my athletes training with me is a cramp in his side. Of course after stretching for about 1 min give or take, a shot of water an we were back in business.
But seriously if you guys out there dont know SPEED COACH AND ESTI are some guys who you seriously should try to talk to. Im blessed I get to talk to them whenever there free.

Not that I’m disagreeing with you at all but the underestimation can also go the other way.

I’ve gotten into discussions with parents and athletes (more when I was coaching high school) regarding what I did vs. "I paid for (their kid) to work with a speed trainer/personal trainer/sports specific trainer etc. and they are going to get them stronger and faster. It’s going to be really good (implying that what I’ve done is not in some cases) because they are going to be doing a “speed development program”. Wow, I say, I’ve never thought about that as I was planning on making your kid slower and weaker but that sounds like a good idea! In so many words, I actually did say this once-I had had enough.

I’d then get around to the details of this great program of development and find out it’s almost solely intensive tempo with NO actual speed work done. This complemented with a great strength progam consisting of such staples as flyes, leg extensions, leg press, lots of calf raises, curls, kickbacks, etc. you get the picture. You view this program and find there are really no progressions, planning etc.

Then you proceed to explain and trying to hold back a bit on ripping it so as to show it’s not about making it personal, how deficient this “program” was.

You can see on message boards when any one of a number of team’s CFB players have not performed particularly well at the combine and/or pro days. Fans say: “I don’t understand what happened to player A as he had been doing speed training”. They make such statements without any regard to what that’s supposed to look like. They simply don’t know the difference between one program or another and the people on this board would see major differences, problems instantly.

In the case of the private coach, the assumption by the parents was that the self-proclaimed professional specialist in sports specific training who even (gasp!) had a certification to his name would going to turn the kid into an Olympian overnight-okay I am exaggerating the Olympian part. To this I pointed out that I too have a number of certifications none of which, in the grand scheme of things, prove anything.

In the end, both of us compete against this kind of “trainer”. One who has an aerobics instructor cert. so naturally that means they are qualified to train athletes.

Thats great work it is amazing how much improvement an athlete can make in a long trerm athelte developmet model I have 10 guys in a simular situation - been working with me for 3 - 6 years. One kid weighs 155 lbs - he squats 450 hang cleans 290 and benches 250 plays with the Kalona Rockets WHL. All 12 can squat over 450 lbs and hang clean 225 or better. 5 are in the WHL and the others are not yet 16. Most importantly they all run well - and skate well.

Those are great points - we train 120 hockey players over the summer in small groups. The most important part of the program is the information sessions we have with the atheltes and parents. Last year we had maybe 20 kids commiting to inseason maintanance program all year. This year before we even begin our inseason mainanence we have 40 athletes signed up. This is directly due to the education process we have begun with our athletes and their parents!

It sounds like you are on the right track with all you do. I kind of laugh at some programs because they treat hockey as though strength isn’t very important. New Jersey Devils don’t even like thier players doing much chest work for fear of shoulder injuries. Getting checked into the glass at 20+ MPH seems a little more traumatic. The kid I was talking about did 3x365 squat going into freshman year. He is stupid strong for 15 yrs old. My college players just laugh how strong his legs are. I think the skating plays a profound role in that. Pioneer, well said on all points. I agree, ESTI and I are in the same area as well as Highlander and we always hear of some new speed program that just turns out to be conditioning. Our kids routinely beat these kids by 3-4 tenths at football testing. But we aren’t the latest thing so… Honestly, I don’t care, as these Johnny come latelys usually get found out quickly. No beteer lesson for a parent than parting with hard earned cash and little to no results.

Ya you said it - its too bad the athlete has to suffer though!

I have NHL guys who leave looking for the best new thing only to call me up asking if I had room for them next year!

My young guys stay but the older guys that I have not trained very long - its a crap shoot! And most dont like sprinting so they eliminate themselves quickly.

irt is utterly amazing the stuff some of these guru’s put on kids. My 15 year old got done playing 80+ games after winning nationals, and a week later guess what they were doing? The team sponsored them to go to these guys who if I gave u a link to their site and you saw video clips, you would probably piss yourself laughing. Anyway, after 80+ game grind, this brain trust has them flipping tires, dragging sleds and swinging sledge hammers in circuit fashion. His Dad said it was so bad, he pulled Evan out before he hurt himself. I was like, the last thing this kid needs is more conditioning and lactic work. I said lets does some assesment and see if he has any imbalances or injuries that we may need to deal with before we start the process of getting him back to GPP. I just don’t get it. I like your approach, hopefully you will have some sway over the Nike thing. I think players could use more opportunity to prove themselves, I just worry that the corporate mantra will turn it into the s**t they do with football.

I guess the best way to really show what you can do is through word of mouth, testimonials. You can also document the pre and post tests and demonstrate great improvement but naturally anyone self reporting results can claim anything and you might be competing against truly bogus claims of another group. I can still see the value of using such results to sell a program. Another program where the coach knows not how to develop the athlete, will not take time to study nor plan out a program for that athlete might not be willing to test or even fabricate results-too lazy.

On the other hand they might rely on nebulous, unquantifiable numbers that were attained from testing procedures that maintained no degree of strictness or standardization and are only looking to be sure their athletes have impressive marks regardless of accuracy.

The better program is going to be detail oriented. It can obviously be difficult to promote a program when the “buyer” knows not what to look for, what makes a good program or a bad one. They do become enamored of the gadgets and toys.

Since health should be considered the most important outcome from training because no injured athlete can perform at peak levels, if a program repeatedly has athletes injured it’s bad. Unfortunately, some bad programs might not injure the athlete early on but eventually they will be hurt, not recover well on a consistent basis, just not perform well or all of these will occur. Only after some time wasted will the athlete and parent realize (maybe) they need to get out.

Other poor programs will show their true colors early on providing evidence that the program is unsound through injury.

It’s too bad that more parents and their kids don’t possess enough knowledge or experience in the subject matter to be able to properly evaluate program a from b.

that there is a need for a seminar to teach parents how to cut through the crap. Obviously without promoting any one program while doing it. Perhaps teaching the pit falls to look out for. Maybe a little bit of infromation could help a lot of people. The internet has been a double edged sword, a great place for good info if you know where to look, or an unregulated frontier land laden with lied and misinformation. I have done nutrition seminars in the past and people were shocked at what they learned. I had more people talking to me via e-mail saying they were shocked at the things I revealed to them. Funny thing, most of us on here know much of this but the average consumer can’t wade through the volumes of trash they come up with on a google search.

As Charlie always communicated to all of us here in all the topics he discussed EDUCATION is powerful when it is combined with common sense and an honest desire to work with people.

Education is the best tool, that few too many people use. Most get caught up in the hyperbole of th latest and greatest program. I guess the most common problem I see is that people are more wowed by things they have never seen before, ie the latest training apparatus. They overlook the beauty of simplicity. The science is in the movement, the art is in knowing how and when to apply the movement.