LMBO! Well said! I get the exact same thing. Like you I dont pull out all gadgets (ladders, chutes, weight vests, etc) and just get results. I think the biggest injury I ever had with 1 of my athletes training with me is a cramp in his side. Of course after stretching for about 1 min give or take, a shot of water an we were back in business.
But seriously if you guys out there dont know SPEED COACH AND ESTI are some guys who you seriously should try to talk to. Im blessed I get to talk to them whenever there free.
Not that I’m disagreeing with you at all but the underestimation can also go the other way.
I’ve gotten into discussions with parents and athletes (more when I was coaching high school) regarding what I did vs. "I paid for (their kid) to work with a speed trainer/personal trainer/sports specific trainer etc. and they are going to get them stronger and faster. It’s going to be really good (implying that what I’ve done is not in some cases) because they are going to be doing a “speed development program”. Wow, I say, I’ve never thought about that as I was planning on making your kid slower and weaker but that sounds like a good idea! In so many words, I actually did say this once-I had had enough.
I’d then get around to the details of this great program of development and find out it’s almost solely intensive tempo with NO actual speed work done. This complemented with a great strength progam consisting of such staples as flyes, leg extensions, leg press, lots of calf raises, curls, kickbacks, etc. you get the picture. You view this program and find there are really no progressions, planning etc.
Then you proceed to explain and trying to hold back a bit on ripping it so as to show it’s not about making it personal, how deficient this “program” was.
You can see on message boards when any one of a number of team’s CFB players have not performed particularly well at the combine and/or pro days. Fans say: “I don’t understand what happened to player A as he had been doing speed training”. They make such statements without any regard to what that’s supposed to look like. They simply don’t know the difference between one program or another and the people on this board would see major differences, problems instantly.
In the case of the private coach, the assumption by the parents was that the self-proclaimed professional specialist in sports specific training who even (gasp!) had a certification to his name would going to turn the kid into an Olympian overnight-okay I am exaggerating the Olympian part. To this I pointed out that I too have a number of certifications none of which, in the grand scheme of things, prove anything.
In the end, both of us compete against this kind of “trainer”. One who has an aerobics instructor cert. so naturally that means they are qualified to train athletes.
Thats great work it is amazing how much improvement an athlete can make in a long trerm athelte developmet model I have 10 guys in a simular situation - been working with me for 3 - 6 years. One kid weighs 155 lbs - he squats 450 hang cleans 290 and benches 250 plays with the Kalona Rockets WHL. All 12 can squat over 450 lbs and hang clean 225 or better. 5 are in the WHL and the others are not yet 16. Most importantly they all run well - and skate well.
Those are great points - we train 120 hockey players over the summer in small groups. The most important part of the program is the information sessions we have with the atheltes and parents. Last year we had maybe 20 kids commiting to inseason maintanance program all year. This year before we even begin our inseason mainanence we have 40 athletes signed up. This is directly due to the education process we have begun with our athletes and their parents!
It sounds like you are on the right track with all you do. I kind of laugh at some programs because they treat hockey as though strength isn’t very important. New Jersey Devils don’t even like thier players doing much chest work for fear of shoulder injuries. Getting checked into the glass at 20+ MPH seems a little more traumatic. The kid I was talking about did 3x365 squat going into freshman year. He is stupid strong for 15 yrs old. My college players just laugh how strong his legs are. I think the skating plays a profound role in that. Pioneer, well said on all points. I agree, ESTI and I are in the same area as well as Highlander and we always hear of some new speed program that just turns out to be conditioning. Our kids routinely beat these kids by 3-4 tenths at football testing. But we aren’t the latest thing so… Honestly, I don’t care, as these Johnny come latelys usually get found out quickly. No beteer lesson for a parent than parting with hard earned cash and little to no results.
Ya you said it - its too bad the athlete has to suffer though!
I have NHL guys who leave looking for the best new thing only to call me up asking if I had room for them next year!
My young guys stay but the older guys that I have not trained very long - its a crap shoot! And most dont like sprinting so they eliminate themselves quickly.
irt is utterly amazing the stuff some of these guru’s put on kids. My 15 year old got done playing 80+ games after winning nationals, and a week later guess what they were doing? The team sponsored them to go to these guys who if I gave u a link to their site and you saw video clips, you would probably piss yourself laughing. Anyway, after 80+ game grind, this brain trust has them flipping tires, dragging sleds and swinging sledge hammers in circuit fashion. His Dad said it was so bad, he pulled Evan out before he hurt himself. I was like, the last thing this kid needs is more conditioning and lactic work. I said lets does some assesment and see if he has any imbalances or injuries that we may need to deal with before we start the process of getting him back to GPP. I just don’t get it. I like your approach, hopefully you will have some sway over the Nike thing. I think players could use more opportunity to prove themselves, I just worry that the corporate mantra will turn it into the s**t they do with football.
I guess the best way to really show what you can do is through word of mouth, testimonials. You can also document the pre and post tests and demonstrate great improvement but naturally anyone self reporting results can claim anything and you might be competing against truly bogus claims of another group. I can still see the value of using such results to sell a program. Another program where the coach knows not how to develop the athlete, will not take time to study nor plan out a program for that athlete might not be willing to test or even fabricate results-too lazy.
On the other hand they might rely on nebulous, unquantifiable numbers that were attained from testing procedures that maintained no degree of strictness or standardization and are only looking to be sure their athletes have impressive marks regardless of accuracy.
The better program is going to be detail oriented. It can obviously be difficult to promote a program when the “buyer” knows not what to look for, what makes a good program or a bad one. They do become enamored of the gadgets and toys.
Since health should be considered the most important outcome from training because no injured athlete can perform at peak levels, if a program repeatedly has athletes injured it’s bad. Unfortunately, some bad programs might not injure the athlete early on but eventually they will be hurt, not recover well on a consistent basis, just not perform well or all of these will occur. Only after some time wasted will the athlete and parent realize (maybe) they need to get out.
Other poor programs will show their true colors early on providing evidence that the program is unsound through injury.
It’s too bad that more parents and their kids don’t possess enough knowledge or experience in the subject matter to be able to properly evaluate program a from b.
that there is a need for a seminar to teach parents how to cut through the crap. Obviously without promoting any one program while doing it. Perhaps teaching the pit falls to look out for. Maybe a little bit of infromation could help a lot of people. The internet has been a double edged sword, a great place for good info if you know where to look, or an unregulated frontier land laden with lied and misinformation. I have done nutrition seminars in the past and people were shocked at what they learned. I had more people talking to me via e-mail saying they were shocked at the things I revealed to them. Funny thing, most of us on here know much of this but the average consumer can’t wade through the volumes of trash they come up with on a google search.
As Charlie always communicated to all of us here in all the topics he discussed EDUCATION is powerful when it is combined with common sense and an honest desire to work with people.
Education is the best tool, that few too many people use. Most get caught up in the hyperbole of th latest and greatest program. I guess the most common problem I see is that people are more wowed by things they have never seen before, ie the latest training apparatus. They overlook the beauty of simplicity. The science is in the movement, the art is in knowing how and when to apply the movement.
The kid who is the subject of this thread came to me the other day for massage work and while on the table, he decided that he had enough of this program and just wants to follow my program for the rest of summer or roughly 3 more weeks. I need to get hams back in shape and quick. Team invited 26 kids to camp and are cutting 3 after first tourney. Good news is he is back, bad news is, I have 3 weeks to get him sorted out.
This one should have got a death sentence. This is our December training camp schedule (my previous coach’s training). I really was lucky to get overtrained before the camp and stayed home. I translated it as much as I could. I also translated my friends comments that he wrote down when he got this programm on email. We first heard about CF training system about 14 days before the camp. CONSIDER HIS COMMENTS AS BEING IRONIC.
SATURDAY 1 -
warm-up + 50, 60, 40m accel
6x starts
6x60m / 100%
6x2x8 hurdles
One “legged” jumps 6x30m
6x2x12 mini hurdles
2x120m / 90%
calf raises; 6x10L+10R
one leg squat; 6x10L+10R
PERFECT TRAINING TO START WITH. NO CNS STRESS AT ALL…
SUNDAY - 1. training
3x60m accel
6x starts
3x100m (decceleration, turn back is the rest between)/90%
one leg squat; 6x10L+10R
half squat jumps; 6x16 ( fast)
half squat one leg jumps; 6x8L+8R
sled ( 15kg ) 6x60m / 100%
3x100m (decceleration, turn back is the rest between)/90%
med ball; 6x3 back + 6x3 forward
Skipping (knee’s high) ; 6x30m
Lying Leg Curl; 6x10x15kg
OOH MAN I LOVED THOSE SLEDS. tIMES WERE CRAPPY BUT I FELT LIKE AN ANIMAL RUNNING WITH THOSE SLEDS…
Sunday 2. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
running with emphasized stride length:6x20m
skipping; 6x20m
6x150m / 90% - 100%
8 - 10 min rest + stretching
lunges ; 6x12L+12R
IF YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT REST AND RECOVERY THINK AGAIN…
Monday . 1. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
6x flying 30m / belt 2 kg
lunges ; 6x50m
one leg squat; 6x10L+10R
half squat jumps; 6x16 ( fast)
half squat one leg jumps; 6x8L+8R
2x40m +10m accel
calf raises; 6x10L+10R
Đoq jumps; 6x20m
2x40m +10m accel
Monday . 2. trening
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
400 + 100/ 90%
300 + 100
400 + 100
300 + 100
5 min between runs
10 min between sets + stretching
Lying Leg Curl; 6x10x15kg
AT FIRST I THOUGH FIRST THREE DAYS WERE TOUGH…
Tuesday. 1. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
6x4x6 hurdles
2x60m + 10m accel / 100%
6x2x4 mini hurdles
2x60m + 10m accel / 100%
6x20m đog jumps
2x60m + 10m accel / 100%
calf raises; 6x10L+10R
Tuesday 2. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
6x2x8 hurdles
6x120m / 100%
rest 10 min + stretching
Lying Leg Curl; 6x10x15kg
Wednesday 1. TRAINING
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
3x100m (decceleration, turn back is the rest between)/90%
one leg squat; 6x10L+10R
squat jumps; 6x16 ( fast)
half squat one leg jumps; 6x8L+8R
skipping WITH SLEDS (10 kg) 6x40m
3x100m (decceleration, turn back is the rest between)/90%
calf raises; 6x10L+10R
6x3 med ball (explosive!!!)
Hops ; 6x20m
IF MY LEGS SURVIVE THIS I’LL BE THE NEXT WORLD RECORD HOLDER =)
THURSDAY. 1 . TRAINING
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
posebej; 3x300m / 100%
10 min rest
Lunges; 6x12L+12R
Thursday ; 2. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
3x30m from blocks/ 100%
6x60m + 10 m zaleta / 100%
irst and the last runs are done with the 2kg belt
3x30m from blocks/ 100%
one leg squat; 6x10L+10R
Lying Leg Curl; 6x10x15kg
FRIDAY!!! MY LEGS ARE A BIT SORE BUT MY COACH SAYS I’LL MAKE IT
FRIDAY . 1. training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
sleds;2x60m + 10 kg /100%
one leg half squat jumps; 6x12L+12R
6x2x8 hurdles
lunges ; 6x50m
one leg jumps 6x30m
sleds;2x60m + 10 kg /100 %
mini hurdles 6x2x12
đog jumps; 6x20m
sleds;2x60m + 10 kg /100%
pet. 2 training
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
6x200m / 90%
8 min rest between runs
calf raises, 6x10L+10D
half squat position (back on the wall behind you, I hope you know what i mean) ; 6x30 s
DOOOM. NO WE CAN MAKE IT. IT’S GOOD TO DO SOME MORE JUMPS AND SPRINTS IN CASE IT WASN’T ENOUGH
SATURADY
warm-up + 3x50m accel
6x starts
6x flying 60m /100%
one leg squat 6x12L+12R
calf raises; 6x12L+12R
med ball 6x 3
to show that stupidity isn’t regional nor does it have boundary. I get so sick of seeing this kind of training. I believe it was either James Smith or another post that said Verkoshansky was so disappointed in the lack of understanding in many western coaches. I couldn’t agree more.
more is better!
Holy crap KK400! So did anybody tear a meniscus, acl, hammy blow out? Hip tear? Etc? Yeah this dude would be doin life in jail without parole!
Yes, my friend got a bad groin injury two weeks after that and didn’t train for two months. Another guy pulled a hamstring a week later…
Did the “coach” blame the guy for not having enough “heart” or being soft? I’m so sick of stupid coaches who destroy athletes and then turn the problems on the athlete.
There is absolutely no doubt that many athletes have caused their own demises but some coaches never take responsibility for the destruction of athletes when it was their crazy, volumized poor excuse of a program and/or lack of true LI days that led to many of the problems in the first place.
Coaches need to take responsibility for their part in the problems and not always blame the athletes for injuries or lack of results.
While this particular case may have nothing to do with what I’m describing, it’s something that I’m seeing all too regularly.
This is exactly what happened. Me and my friend who complained about the training volume was accused of being “soft” and eventually after some bad conflicts and another overtraining “experience” we started training on our own.
Preach! Trust me I see it wayyyyy toooo much myself! It shows stupid has no boundaries!