Interesting approach to the hamstring exercise. I like the up drill with pause but would prefer to keep the horizontal ones to a lower number. I counted 12 contacts there but I’d prefer 6 or less per set at that intensity. The running A’s have a different arm carriage- pulling back rather than the down from eye level I prefer. Thoughts?
The hamstring exercise is interesting/different. I’ve done “ankle jumps” w/knees straight before and felt in my hamstrings when the reps were high, but bending at the hips is new to me.
Re arms: most athletes for some reason do these drills with very little “front side work” with the arms. I am guessing its because there is no huge rotational forces to counter balance so the range of motion of the arm can be less.
And they do A’s that way because they’re stepping over when there isn’t the room (air time) to complete a cycle. To have the arms in front, the lower leg must stay under the up knee throughout. this looks like a Seagrave interpretation of a running A. Note also that doing the A’s this way never allows the support leg to be fully extended.
That said, you need to decide whether it’s really worth switching the drill around if someone has learned it this way. First see if it translates into a problem in the sprint stride before deciding to take any action or not.
Hello Charlie, on the same website the authors show two running techniques. What is your take on this?
arm carriage this way should increase torsion in the upper body, which is in his opinion, crucial, in order for rapid and efficient elastic energy transport in the body during sprinting.
arm carriage like this is also a habit in my opinion : “looks” like a sprinter
The guy performing the jumps is a 10.4 sprinter, who has been dramatically injured all the time.
My observation: most european sprinters seem to have a difficult time to stay relaxed, look at shoulder elevation during the last 30m of a 100m.
The type of exercise B&K propose might strengthen the above inability not to relax. Put that above on the exercises they propose to improve pretension of muscles, and voila, what do you expect?
regards
stefan
On the right side, the dude’s form looks way to exaggerated. Do they know the 100m is a race and not a drill?
“Warning: this is 100 meters. This is not a drill. I repeat, not a drill” 
Stefan
Strengheting beyong the ability to relax??? Any proof of some kind that this is existing science? Only hyperthrofical training has that result and these gays do not look like that to me.
Also speculating about the reason behind injuries from what you can see in a video, makes me think you use “facts” to end up where you want to end up. Any proven data on using this type of excercises and injury.We have been doing them now for some time and no injuries, voila.
No one wants to know about your observations… you know the rules. Abide by them. Your comments have added nothing to this discussion.
First off, all the top sprinters ever use the arm carriage I suggest. Not one uses this form.
The reference to injuries should, as you say, be restricted to the subject on film who apparently has a known injury history. I don’t see why those hamstring drills couldn’t be used safely in moderation.
That said, I reviewed the sprinting examples shown. Curved torso, low hips, figure on right exaggerated landing in front of CM. Is this something to be emulated?
If you want a steady pace/hold a rhythm. I’ve seen a few good sprinters allow that lower leg to float out during their “paced” speed/special endurance runs.
@xela, I was not referencing to injury, but more to “technique stereotying” as kit kat has been talking about, due to the choice and execution modus of the exercises.
In my humble opiniion, the runners in the Netherlands who adhere to B&K model, show this kind of stereotyping, which may interfere with more natural (varied), relaxed running. But this depend on whether you use the exercises only / use the technigue model as well.
For example, is it possible that the type of arm carriage, influences the “amount of relaxation” during sprinting?
I did not say that the exercises weren’t safe.
The only problem I see with the method that one might be prone to injuries of the lower leg due to extentise bounding. I’m just afraid of that.
Any exercise can be save if periodized well in an overall program.
The two running examples are middle distance runners by the way (at the time the videos were taken)…(the left guy around 3.55 for 1500m and the right guy around 3’46 in his best days)
regards,
Stefan
Stefan
I think we both can agree that NO book can replace the good judgement of a coach and the every concept can be robotized by a coach how is not capable to deal with the reality of the individual.
Does not mean that there are many great things in the book.
I find for example their concept of “reflex” strenght a eye opener. Any comments on this?
Agreed.I pointed that out in earlier thread “Low Bar Squat”.
I was wondering where you get the information of their atlethes being injured.??
I am the producer of the DVD and trainer my self. I know a lot of professionel trainers in the Netherlands using this method. I really know a lot of the results in praktice. I cant share your opnion about these injuries.
Best regards Dick Lam
The book is not centered around sprinting. There is a part in a chapter that discusses sprinting and starting.
Ronald Klomp has trained Ellen van Langen 800m Olympic Champion in Barcelona.
The method in the Netherlands is used by many trainers. The KNAU education of trainers level A and B are based on this method. Maybe you have heard about two dutch 800m runners are European champion indoor and outdoor this year and last year.
That does not mean anything, but you should not only judge on the question “who is he training”.
Frans Bosch will be key note speaker at the USA Track&Field education program this summer. He will be giving 5 presentations. They have recognised his talents.
So they’re middle distance guys. that’s important to know!
I have the book. That was the impression that I got (sprint focus). Are you proposing the same mechanics for a 100m person and an 800/1500m person?
Good. I will get to meet him then. Is he presenting for the sprints, jumps, or the distance group?
hello Dick,
I think your question regarding the injuries are directed to me
first of, I only talked about the injuries of the guy performing the jumps (if I am right that was Pally, no need for his last name). You can never be sure what caused injuries, but what about Thomas, Wilbert, Jurgen. This was the group most extensively trained by Frans. I only question (that’s why I said "I am afraid) whether there is a link.
I know some groups of middle distance athletes who implemented bounding, maybe not in the “good” way, but based on B&K who had lower legs problems a lot. Maybe it’s not the method but the interpretation of it?
I have to admit that Frans co-coached Thomas Kortbeek to a Universiade gold on 400mh and has good succes at the moment with Tora Harris. So he seems to be doing / have done something right.
second, Ronald Klomp started coaching Ellen van Langen after she won her olympic gold. Frans Thuys brought her to that podium.
third, a question to you: does honore hoedt uses this method? Based on the following quote in one of his writings “run as lazy as you can” I suspect he is not. I have never heard a link to B&K from him or from any other coach. Therefore I question whether the two European 800m golds can be connected to this method (buth runners are trained by Honore Hoedt starting when they were around 13-14 years of age). Maybe you can change my thinking?
Fourth, Ralph Mann has probably done some USATF presentations as well, but is not credited by every coach on this forum. What does that say about his talents?
All in all, I have some doubt about your “advertisement” of this method.
Looking forward to your reply
regards
Stefan
NB: I am a Duthman as well, if you want to email me:sijmker@hotmail.com
Stefan
You are not questioning the work of a coach (Bosch), you are insinuating that it because of training that there a a number of injuries.
You as a scientist should not do this. Injuries can also be the result of bad trainingfacilities (cold weather) or athletes being prone to injuries (there are a lot of those). So untill you can show that the situation is not athletes having good results in spite of being prone to injury, but it is athletes not performing good enough because wrong training gives them injuries, you should not bring these things into the discussion.
Do you have good trainingdata from these athletes (not fom hear-say)?? Maybe than your speculation can get some scientific color.
To many fysios and coaches speculate on injuries without proper research.
Xela
Say What? It is the coaches’ JOB to evaluate training and accept or reject it based on what they see, not to wait around for some scientist to come around and tell him which way is up!
You don’t need a degree in Rocket Science to evaluate training programs. You simply ask: “Who are the athletes and what have they done?”