best method for building endurance?

Other Sports
1

I’ve been reading this forum for a while and I’ve read charlie’s book, and I’ve formed fairly definite opinions on how to train, but I still have some questions. First of all, my sport is ultimate frisbee, and for those of you who aren’t familiar with it, I think it’s unique because of the amount of sprinting you do. It’s got the endurance aspect of soccer, but I feel like in soccer (I may be wrong, I’ve never really played competitively) there are a lot of times when you need to be just jogging around. With ultimate, about 95% of the time you need to be sprinting at 100% intensity. Of course, unlike soccer, the points are fairly quick, so you’ll play 2 points, then sub out for 2, then go back in. So I guess it’s kind of like hockey, where you go in and go totally crazy and then come out.

My question is, what is the best way to train for this kind of endurance? The standard way of thinking in the sport is to run windsprints. Of course, people who play ultimate have no knowledge of any of the things I’ve learned on this forum, so I’m often at odds with them on how to train. For example, I’m trying out for a team, so I went to their practice saturday. We ran some cutting drills, scrimmaged for a while, then when everyone was totally beat and dehydrated from running and playing, we did wind sprints at the end. We did 4 80 yard sprints with about 30 seconds rest in between. The first two were done at 75 and 85 % intensity, then the second two at 100%. The next week we’ll probably do 3 at 100%, and keep adding another one each week.

Now according to what I’ve learned, we should be doing the sprints first thing in the practice, because they place the greatest demand on the CNS, right? But should we even be doing them at all, considering during the scrimmage we’re doing a whole bunch of 30,40,50 and even 80 yard sprints at max intensity already? I would think that the best way to build endurance would be to do tempo runs on off days, 300 and 400 meters. I feel like if we all could do 10 or so 400’s with 30-60 seconds rest in between at 75% intensity, we’d be in pretty damn good shape, endurance wise. But I can’t help feeling that doing 100% intensity back to back like that would make me get in really good shape. Of course, it could also lead to injury, I’m sure. I should make clear that we aren’t really trying to work on speed, we just want to be able to sprint longer than the other teams can, be in better shape.

I’d really appreciate any comments from the forum on this. The sprinting at the end thing really is universal in the sport. I play in a summer league twice a week, and all the teams run sprints after the game. Last year I partially tore a hammy muscle doing them, so I never do them, but I always feel like I’m a wuss, like people don’t respect me. And of course you want to run them as fast as you can so show everyone how fast you are. My problem is that I’m less experienced in ultimate than the people on the team, but I feel like I have a lot more knowledge about training (thanks to you guys!). :slight_smile: I’d just like some people to back me up before I suggest any changes to the program. Thanks!

Nick

2

Originally posted by ngorevic
[b]

  1. My question is, what is the best way to train for this kind of endurance?

  2. Now according to what I’ve learned, we should be doing the sprints first thing in the practice, because they place the greatest demand on the CNS, right?

  3. But should we even be doing them at all, considering during the scrimmage we’re doing a whole bunch of 30,40,50 and even 80 yard sprints at max intensity already?

[/b]

  1. Train for a combination of speed and endurance. How - see suggestions below …
  2. Yes
  3. Not really.

I would agree with one of your first comments - It appears (I know nothing about it) it is very like soccer or other team sports.

Suggested Program:
M - Speed (Low Reps - High intensity - full recovery)
T - Tempo (65-70% - Runs <70m)
W - Agility (Agility drills at high intensity)
T - Tempo
F - Speed - Repetition with slightly shorter recoveries
S - Tempo

Someone else might be fit to offer more …

3

Thanks for the suggestions. The only problem with your suggested program is that we’re all already playing anywhere from 3-5 times a week. I should’ve mentioned that. Most of us play summer league on mondays and wednesdays, and there are often tournaments which run all day on saturdays and sundays. So what I was thinking of was doing tempo work on tuesdays and thursdays, at very low intensity, but long distances like 300 and 400 meters. That would leave friday for some serious recovery before the upcoming three days of intensity. I would consider the playing days to be speed work. Thoughts?

Nick

4

That sounds good - you’ll have to make it suit your program and training

5

In such a sport, assuming sufficient conditioning and skill levels I would be reluctant to seperate the sprinting from the skill work. Skills need to be developed at game pace (or faster), which would neccesiate the combining of skill and speed work through high intensity drills.

You ask:
“…we should be doing the sprints first thing in the practice, because they place the greatest demand on the CNS, right?”

I would (given the pre-requisites listed above) say no! Plays & drills which more closely mimic your event should be done first when your CNS is fresh. Ensure sufficient rest to ensure intensity stays high.

If you have enough gas in the tank after sports-specific drills/plays, then by all means add in a low volume of speed work to complement this. At this stage of your season, given that games are so frequent I would leave any endurance deficiency to the actual games.

As I am typing this I realise I know absolutely nothing about UF - but I would imagine these principles would still apply.

6

Originally posted by gf_200

Plays & drills which more closely mimic your event should be done first when your CNS is fresh…If you have enough gas in the tank after sports-specific drills/plays, then … add in a low volume of speed work to complement this.

Actually good point GF - Skill first,
(sorry Nick was only considering fitness components)

  • Skill, Speed, Endurance - 1, 2, 3
7

Originally posted by gf_200
[b] At this stage of your season, given that games are so frequent I would leave any endurance deficiency to the actual games.

[/b]

Ok, as far as endurance goes, this is something I always wonder about. I’ve been playing 4 or even 5 days a week for a month or so now, and for several months before that I was playing at least 3 times a week. So my endurance should be through the roof, right? While it is pretty darn good, I still feel like it could be better. Right now I can go in and run around for two points really hard, and I’m really winded when I come out. I’d like to not be winded at all, so what’s the best way to acheive that? It seems to me that just playing won’t do that, I need to do something that makes me run longer and harder than playing two points would, so that doing the actual two point turns into something my body could easily handle. So should I do long distance tempo, or full intensity speed work with as little recovery between reps as possible?

Nick

8

Exactly Athlete_400m - Regeneration !!!
Overtraining could be an issue here too …

9

Perhaps you should re-examine your pre-competition conditioning & endurance activity…?

With that schedule where were you thinking of including additional endurance work?

10

Well, I think at this point I would stay with the summer league games on monday and wednesday, and on weeks when there are tournaments, I’d just do tempo work once/week on tuesdays. Weeks without tournaments I’d do tempo work on thursdays also. Summer league days are very light, it’s only about 45 minutes of playing time, so I was thinking about maybe doing some speed work afterwords, if you guys don’t think that’s too much.

Nick

11

I would make that call after assessing:

  • body status, and
  • recovery time available

Remember, less is more!

12

i play ultimate as well, and am interested in the forum’s recommendations for training. here is some additional info:

at this point, with just over a month until the start of the club series, most club teams are doing 2-3 field practices (drills, scrimmaging, some conditioning) per week, plus one track (speed) workout, and perhaps an additional non-field workout (stadiums, trail runs, etc). and many players do some sort of steady-state work on their own.
i have one summer league game a week, but frankly, i don’t even count it as a workout.

the ultimate tournament format is rather unusual. they are usually two-day tournaments held on weekends, with anywhere between 3-5 games per day. games are around 2 hours long and scheduled back to back.

the game itself requires short bursts of speed and quick changes of direction. jumping ability is a bonus.

so how should one train?

oh and nick, you say that you don’t want to be winded after 2 points, but i think the goal IS to be winded after your two points - because then you left it on the field and ran your hiney off. really what you want is to be able to run hard, and then recover quickly, and run hard again… and again… and again.