Ben Johnson Squat 1rm?

Expert Discussion Weightlifting
37

I don’t know what you mean?

I was just thinking that at 85% of 1RM, basically all motor units would be activated, so I just don’t see how Poliquin thinks that a test of 5 reps, give or take, says anything about being “slow twitch dominant.” My thoughts were that it could say just as much about how resistant to fatigue the FT fibres were, among other things.

As for types of training that might affect it, well obviously FOG (IIa) fibres are more resistant to fatigue than FG (IIx) fibres, and I think it has been shown that certain training tends to make IIx fibres behave more like IIa fibres… (not exactly sure if the fibres literally change, or just take on metabolic characteristics of the different type), and so my thoughts were that with the right training, the muscle fibres could become much more resistant to fatigue without necessarily changing the maximum amount of force that they can generate, therefore changing the results on the test but still saying nothing about whether one is “slow twitch dominant” or “fast twitch dominant.”

38

You are absolutely correct

39

With respect to athletes who are attempting to gain weight via a calorie surplus for a period of time will the nature of that added muscle be dependent upon the enviroment it is put on in. For instance someone is hurt and they can only lift weights and choose to lift primarily in the 10 rep range vs another athlete who is healthy and maintaining the same calorie surplus, but trains primarily with speed work and other activities that support the development of spent and the stretch shortening cycle?

40

Are the 3 jumps double leg like a frog jump?

Also in these tests how do you rank someone that has scores better in one part of the test compared to another?

Last one (sorry to be a pest!!!) Do you use these test in your program? I’ve seen it in track but not in football…

Thanks

41

Thanks for clarifying!

42

Could you expand on ESD? I’m curious about measuring it and adjusting training based on the results.

43

The jumps are double leg.

I don’t use the chart as a ranking system. I use the tests you saw me post for my skill players (bench, 40yd, SLJ, VJ, STJ, Backward shot throw) and simply look for continued improvement across the board.

44

There was a discussion here that took place years ago in which I went into great detail on this- though after searching I can’t find it…annoying.

As a result, I’m going to be brief:

The ESD characterizes the difference between maximal force as expressed via training exercises and the amount of force that is generated during the performance of, or some aspect of the, competition exercise itself.

The competition exercise in nearly all sport disciplines occurs at a much faster rate than anything performed in the weight room (powerlifting, weightlifting, strongman excepted).

Thus, the amount of strength that is developed via most weight room exercises is only useful up to a point- strictly in regards to any improvements one would hope to see in the competition exercise.

For this reason, especially regarding team sports/combat sports/acyclic disciplines/variable motor regime disciplines there is a limit to the benefits of improving maximal strength via certain exercises because it exceeds what can be effectively used during the execution of the competition exercise (ergo all forms of striking, throwing, penetrating, evading,and so on).

So what must be assessed is the F(t) characteristics of the competition exercise and those of any other training exercises that one would expect to directly transfer to the competition exercise.

As far as how this information is relevant to the training of my athletes, the weight room, minus a few exceptions, is used for general training; leaving the bulk of specialized training to field drills.

In this regard, similar to Charlie’s stance on weight work following speed work for a sprinter- the weight work in my program follows speed and specialized field drills for my skill players.

45

Can you please provide an example of what you would consider a specialized training means that can be performed in the gym.

Would you consider prowler pushes, tire flips etc specialized means for some football players - not necessarily your skill guys ?

Cheers

Mac2

46

there are a myriad of possibilities Mac2.

One must adhere to the criteria of Dynamic correspondence in order to ensure that the transfer is direct; i.e. specific

RE Verkhoshansky

  • accentuated regions of force production (where in the amplitude/range of motion are the greatest forces produced/incurred)
  • amplitude and direction of movement (range of motion and direction in which resistance must be overcome)
  • dynamics of effort (the nature of the motion specific to the exercise with and without consideration of the forces involved)
  • rate and time of maximum force production (how fast and for how long is the maximum force generated)
  • regime of muscular work (type of muscular activity ergo overcoming, yielding, sustaining, ballistic, etcetera)

As far as exercise classification goes, I subscribe to Bondarchuk:

  • general preparatory
  • specialized preparatory
  • specialized developmental
  • competition

This all reflects the discussion of specific training.

Alternatively, the general organism strength that is developed regardless of the exercise serves as a means of indirect transfer.

Prowler pushes, assuming the weight, speed of movement, and distance covered is appropriate relative to offensive line/back run block, running back going through the mesh, linebacker blitz, and defensive line bull rush is an effective specialized drill.

Tires may also be used effectively assuming enough criteria are satisfied.

thus, we see that in so many instances it is not the means itself that is in question; but rather the method of execution.

Per your post, the prowler and tire can just as easily be used with efficacy for a American footballer as they can be used disastrously.

Unfortunate for most American footballers is that, from what I’ve seen, the latter is the common result.

47

It seems that the point that most people miss is that there are no magic exercises. Most people pay no attention to the programming of the training and worry much more about how cool things look. If basic exercises were looked at through the biodyanmics and bioenergetics of particular positions players would be soooo much better off. I love watching high school kids doing full speed bleachers with bands attached to their waists and vomitting! Nothing like some lactic capacity work 1 week out from camp!

48

Thanks

Your fast and detailed response is much appreciated.

49

Pavel; how can you make such a concrete conclusion from one picture? Are you implying that the 2x6x600 is not valid if a spotter is used? Well you just make sure that when you do you 1000lb squat you have spotter.

50

I revisited this one and had a thought…just as Charlie has spoken of the concept of speed reserve, can strength, in terms of explosive strength deficit, be looked at in a similar way?

51

That was my point that speed leads weights rather than follows.

52

Not sure if this is the same but I was thinking along the lines of % of maximum force an athlete can produce. Whatever time an athlete has to express this force, isn’t it still a function of % maximum effort? If an athlete can bench 100lbs, shouldn’t the focus be on getting them to 150 or 200, as opposed to getting them to express their low level of strength faster?

53

That comes under the heading of CNS competition. Staying farther to the right- where, in this case, there is so much to do before any sort of reasonable limit is reached, allows more to the left of the F/T curve to be devoted to other more needed power activities.

54

Exactly. That’s why in eastern-europe weightlifting or powerlifting training plans, like the Sheijko’s plans, a gain of speed in the execution of the exercises (say the squat, or the bench press) is the key indicator of a gain in strength.

55

Sprinters will test out as slow twitch dominant because of the influence of SE on their results. I’ve discussed this a number of times on the forum.

56

Thats my point - that i guess i failed to deliver - sorry. :o Poliquin uses these charts on advanced athletes - and teachers other trainers the same (1 trainer i know has spent like $20, 000 on Poliquin seminars)
What i was attempting to say was, these charts might work on beginners, but fail miserably on advanced athletes due to S.E. training.

Poliquin is treated like a god in so many aspects. From what i can gather though, he is only only great at delivering Size results, aka bodybuilding. Which, in all honesty, aint that hard - he just makes it sound more complicated than it is.

1 trainer i know, who studies the hell out of Poliquin and Paul check, plays Soccer - and is always injured! Always. The trouble is, he cant see the issue - and can talk the talk under water with a mouth full flour. The biggest trouble is, he teaches Other New trainers who don’t know jack, the same stupid training techniques. And the cycle continues.