:eek: LOS ANGELES, Nov 20 (AFP) - Detroit fans already had a reputation for bad behaviour even before a violent brawl on Friday where they fought with Indiana players who charged into the stands.
The late-game skirmish between NBA stars and fans wearing Piston replica jerseys won’t help Detroit shed its bad boy image.
Blue-collar Detroit is seen by some as a paragon of anti-social behaviour and urban violence that can explode at any moment.
``Detroit is a blue-collar city. The blue-collar hard working man is not the one you want to be messing with,’’ said Sacramento Kings forward Chris Webber, who attended university in Michigan.
Police are investigating Friday’s five-minute melee but no charges have been laid.
This is the second police probe in the past five months of a fan incident at a Pistons game.
During the NBA finals in June, Los Angeles forward Karl Malone got into a confrontation with a fan who Malone says spit on him during the warmups.
The fan accused Malone of poking him in the face but police declined to lay charges.
On more than one occasion Motown fans have used victories as an excuse to pillage, loot and burn their hometown.
In 1984, Detroit fans turned violent after the baseball Tigers won the World Series. The mayhem resulted in dozens of arrests and one death.
When the Pistons won the franchise’s first NBA championship in 1989, fans celebrated with skirmishes in the streets.
After the Michigan Spartans reached the US college men’s basketball Final Four in 1999, more than 130 people were arrested when cars were overturned and bonfires lit in and around East Lansing, where the school is located.
But incidents between NBA players and fans in the stands are rare. In 1995, Houston’s Vernon Maxwell climbed into the stands in Portland and punched a heckler in the jaw.
In 1991, all-star forward Charles Barkley tried to spit on a heckler behind the bench in New Jersey and missed, hitting an 8-year-old girl.
A few years ago, Ange, James, and I went to a Lions game there and it was a fright. I wondered where it was safer- in the stands or on the field!
Am I the only one who thought this was kind of funny? I love seeing people get their ass whooped for doing stupid things. I mean I wasn’t shooting milk out of my nose in laughter, but still amused 
I do hope the fans getting tagged on the court were the ones who threw the stuff on the players.
However, players need to let the security and police take care of these fans and charge them. Just plain stupid to go up in the stands.
On a slightly humorous note I have to say it is a good thing basketball players (or baseball players) can’t fight like hockey players. Can you imagine hockey players not on skates hitting fans or each other? Lights out.
As for Dee-troit. Everyone from Michigan and Southern Ontario knows there are areas you don’t drive and it’s best just to leave them alone. Don’t bother them and they won’t bother you.
I actually think Artest handeled it well considering almost any other player would fight back when shoved in the throat let alone pelted with beer. Really, if it were someone like Kenyon Martin it could’ve been way worse.
Oh yeah, Some guy come on the court and was walking towards Artest when Artest puched him a few times in the jaw. another guy who looked like the fans brother came to his defence and then Jermaine o’neal punched him hard while sliding into him.
Ben Wallace, Stephen Jackson, Artest, Jermaine O’Neal and another guy are suspended indefinately. Well, atleast Artest is getting the time off he wanted.
This just in artest gets 30 games, jackson 20, JO 20, and Wallace 5!!! Heres the article:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/11/21/brawl.suspensions.ap/
Yikes, didn’t think it was this bad, Indiana’s got a long season ahead of them.
This kind of over-reaction encourages fan violence by rewarding the trouble-makers with the punishment of the players they were out to screw in the first place.
Agreed. The league wants to “send a message” while not doing what they can to prevent the kind of atmosphere that leads to things like this. Part of the players frustration is having to take stuff that pepole don’t get away with on the street. My policy guideline: any action or words by a fan that would realistically trigger a fight on the street should be ejection from the premises, and they should have security enforce that.
There is a huge culture gap between players and fans. If Stern didn’t throw the book at Artest (the real punk) than the fan base would have been up in arms. Artest is a loose cannon, like watching a train wreck. I at least respected Rodman, his antics, before this were far worse than Artest, but the man could have a completely intelligent conversation (without holding the cover of his female R&B trio’s album in front of his face. There’s something wrong with him mentally/psychologically. Why are people defending this guy?
The three major fouls were committed by him. The needless maybe not flagrant, but the most unnecessary foul I’ve ever seen. As Big Ben said it wasn’t gonna be a 15 point play. Then laying on the table, ducking away from Wallace. It’s not your home court don’t come close to the crowd, they don’t like you. Or how about face Big Ben and talk it out, give him a reason, he unlike you is a very sane/reasonable human being. Third, Never under any circumstance may you come into the crowd, it was a frigging cup of ice. To just go into the crowd swinging first asking who did it second is unbelievable. When he comes into the crowd everything goes out the window. Artest reps everything bad about professional sports he has no respect for the game and the fans that have given him everything. Last time I checked baskeball does nothing but provide entertainment, it has no inherent value to our society. If not for fans the pro game is dead in the water. I think the fans were also out of line but it was a cup of ice, A CUP OF ICE!!! If I’m in the stands and you come after someone around me, it’s on. Did you noyice how artest went after the nerdy guy who was holding drinks in his hands. Not only is that cowardly but also stupid. Obviously he didn’t throw it. His claim of self defense was B.S… He rose up and had this look on his face like “Thank you, it’s crazy time” and did like a ten foot standing long jump into the stands and started his assault.
Artest’s claim of self defense is as much bullshit as the above statement.
I hope everyone gets a chance to see the incident on TV so you can judge for yourself.
I watched the first half but not the second. Does anyone know where I can see the eruption online?
Here’s a link from the AP that says Artest will be suspended for the entire rest of the season:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041122/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_pacers_pistons_brawl
Charlie,
Wasn’t Ron lying on the table to provoke people?
THE LATEST . . .
AUBURN HILLS, Mich . - Five rows up and one section over from the scene of one of the ugliest brawls in American sports, a 20-something male in Detroit Pistons garb was letting a certain Charlotte Bobcat have it Sunday night.
Hey, Steve Smith, you're on the sorriest team in the league,'' the fan screamed, his voice rising above the Palace din, as most hecklers' voices tend to do. In other words, things were pretty much back to normal here. Normal, that is, with the exception of 50 percent more stadium security personnel and uniformed police officers. Two nights after a melee injured nine fans and sent two to the hospital, NBA Commissioner David Stern suspended nine players, including Indiana forward Ron Artest for the rest of the season. The crowd of 22,076, just short of a full house, was expected for a game with considerably less marquee value than Friday's. But fans admittedly were wounded by fresh characterizations of their city as a dangerous place for fans.It was a total misrepresentation of our fans,’’ said Tom Hakim of Detroit, a season ticket-holder of 25 years who brought his teenage daughter and her friend to the game. I didn't think twice about bringing the kids, and I never would.'' Hakim had given away his tickets for Friday's game, just across the aisle from where Artest attacked a fan. I’m saddened by the fact that so much more was made of it,’’
Hakim said. ESPN should be off the air for what they said.'' ESPN studio host John Saunders called Detroit fans a bunch of punks.’’
Also near where the fight had taken place, Robert Ellsworth of Lansing, Mich., sat with 8-year-old son Cameron.
Detroit is getting a black eye,'' Ellsworth said. It was an isolated incident. There will still be violence on the court, but I don’t think it will be in the stands again.’’
Not for the time being, anyway. The Pistons have increased security, particularly behind both benches, where a uniformed, armed police officer stood sentry along with four stadium security guards facing the stands at all times.
Pistons chief executive officer Tom Wilson said the added force was partly a necessary show of security to fans at home who might be afraid to bring wives and children to the arena.
I'm not sure we need it, but it was very important tonight to let people know from a visual sense that there was a difference,'' Wilson said. ''(Friday) was a horrible aberration, like a perfect storm. I don't want to overreact and have armed guards all over the court.'' Wilson said the team also is considering erecting canopies over the tunnels through which players enter and exit the court, but he's clearly against it. That’s one of those special things where players on both sides are high-fiving fans and giving autographs,’’ he said. Those are great moments. Do you take that all away because of one incident? I'm not sure you do.'' Still, Wilson supported Artest's unprecedented suspension. It’s a great message to send to everybody,’’ he said. I don't think anything is too harsh after what happened. You're a 260-pound athlete swinging at everyone. He could have trampled kids, ladies, and he's going after the first 165-pound guy he saw.'' Pistons coach Larry Brown, former coach of the Pacers, called the suspensions terrible. I’m devastated for them, and we lost our heart and soul.’’
Brown referred to center Ben Wallace, who received a six-game suspension. With just eight players in uniform, the defending world champions struggled early against the expansion Bobcats and finished the 117-116 double-overtime victory with just five players.
Three Pistons who received one-game suspensions - starter Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman - had suited up when they learned they had to leave the building.
It was a shock because we thought if they were suspended, it would be for the next game,'' said Tayshaun Prince, who drove for the winning dunk with 16 seconds left in the second overtime. Brown said he hoped the victory would prove therapeutic. Hearing the comments, watching TV, hearing people that were not here (Friday) making comments, all in a real bad way about Detroit and our fans, it’s hard,’’ he said. I heard one of our trainers say it wasn't a lot of fun coming to work. I can honestly say the same thing, and I don't think I've ever said that in my whole life.'' At courtside, however, one group of fans enjoyed the game with no apprehension. I wanted to come,’’ said Arthur Blackwell, 13, of Detroit, who cheered the Pistons with buddies Samuel Moore and Sonam Bass, also 13.
While the boys disapproved of the fans who threw cups and, in one case, a chair Friday night, Arthur thought fans had certain inalienable rights.
You can yell . . . but you shouldn't say anything personal or use profanity,'' he said. But, said Samuel, I don’t think it will ever happen again.’’
Yeah,'' agreed Sonam, motioning to the added security behind the Bobcats' bench, especially with those guys standing there.’’
- kk
What benefits does NBA basketball provide to society, besides teaching young kids the wrong way to play and now deplorable sportsmanship.
They don’t need to teach that crowd anything about deplorable behaviour.
If Ron Artest was just an innocent bystander, then I would understand his actions although wrong. However, he was the instigator. He started the chain of events by his actions. First, his usual unnecessary foul, then his holding up of the game by lying on the table.
Just like I would understand Artest actions although wrong I feel the same way about the fans.
Let me be clear I am not saying that the fan actions were correct they were probably drunk AH’s.
Nevertheless, I believe the whole series of events were a direct result of Artest actions. This is not the same as someone on the street coming up and trying him.
These days there are a lot of players in North American Team Sports that are playing for thier paychecks, and not for the sake of winning. This is especially the case in the NBA.
As far as the incident goes, I can understand Artest running into the seats to an extent, given his past and thinking of what I’d do in his situation (if I were as strong 
) .What i dont understand was the other players going in there aside from jones who was actually trying to breaks it up and not fight on his own. The real losers in this are the Indiana Pacers non-players and coaching staff, who have to waste a promising season for the stupid actions of their players and coaches. The fans of Indaina too. The Eastern Conference lost one of it’s best contenders becuase of some immature players .
Charlie brings up an interesting point about it encouraging fans. Maybe in the playoffs this’ll be an issue when desperate fans’ll do anything to ensure their teams advancing .
LOL. The fan’s behavior was inexcusable, yet the players have to restrain themselves. That’s just the way the world works.
I blame much of the fans for the problems…crowds are full of cowards tossing things. Charlie’s point about the athlete being protected shows how much he cares about his sprinters.