Elite cyclists are also extremely lean.
There is very little bodyfat on them even at the start of each stage race. How do they get round the problem of having very little bodyfat but managing to get through 6 hour races day in day out, which takes incredible energy?.
you can argue till your blue in the face, my experience tells me you are incorrect. As has been stated ad nauseum, there are no easy paths to being lean. Obviously it is a big advantage to weigh 130 lbs to ride a bike for hours. Anyone would be lean if they rode Tour De France distances.They also eat and ingest carbs and glycerol during the race. Pretty hard to do that in middle of game. I try to be professional and perhaps encourage you to think a little more deeply about what you say, but it is obvious that you know more than many of us. No insult to you, but I Bow out of this discussion as I believe it is a turning into a quagmire.
I believe it turned back after the 2nd and 3rd posts…
And my experience tells me your incorrect.
Its all about adaptation & adaptation is a very slow process, but very achievable. Its not playing football at 180 lbs & then draining your weight to 156, 3 weeks down the line.
Even in the bodybuilding world, seeing Ronnie Coleman at a show, he doesn’t look drained (mentally), the guy comes alive when he peaks. Maybe you just didn’t have the experience or knowledge to know when enough was enough, seems that way.
You CAN have very little bodyfat & have lots of energy, hence the elite cyclist. Again, its months/years of adaptation. Not stuffing your face, then cutting erratically. That is where you will get into problems. I know I’m right, I’ve certainly been there.
Your making it all too complex for yourselves.
Speed, nothing in life comes easy, for anybody. Life is ours & for some its bodybuilding
If bodybuilders peak for a show at 10-12% bodyfat, please hold a thought for the cyclist.
Thats 10-12% to start. 3-4% at finish to clarify another obviously misunderstood point.
Obviously, that is tremendous improvement.
Any idea as to the rates of change with some of them? That is, how much does the progress slow as time moves on?
Most hit 6-7% relatively quickly. We always say, you should be ready to walk on stage 2-3 weeks out or you are behind. I was talking to one of my former protege’s and was showing him this thread and he was laughing his butt off. He said “anyone who think it’s easy to manage being that lean, has never been that lean”. You have to work hard those last 6-8 weeks to get that last 2% off. I can tell you, the one year I did a 20 weeks diet. I started at 13%@ 247lbs. I ate 9 times per day every 2 hours. It was a chore. A month in, I was 10%@263 lbs. 12 week later, 4 % @ 248 lbs. It was getting up at 3:30 a.m., doing 45 mins of cardio, home shower eat. First client 5 a.m. Train clients til 12, lift, 30 more mins cardio. Train clients 3 til 10, 30 more mins cardio. Go home, sleep, back up 3:30 am. By no means easy. Won the whole show though so I guess it was worth it.
Did I put a thumbs down on my own post? I don’t even know ho to do that. Haha
No offense but bodybuilding isnt running or lifting to get strong. So lean is part of the event but has nothing to do with sport other than bodybuilding.
Mauro is one of the best when I comes to this sort of thing, he has the diet, the training and the background as one of the top MD’s out there for elite everything. Plus he did it himself. Check out his sites. He worked with me from September till December before the Olympics trials and I am about as hard core as they come and I didnt have the energy to properly train on his diet. Finally Charlie said forget it. What is the point.
If I want to look good I can do it with Mauros help for sure.
If I want to run fast I will get Charlie’s help and look good anyway.
you can’t look good and hope to run fast.
In high level athletics performance first and aesthetics second.
Maybe I am missing the point.
that is exactly what this round about thread has been about. I essentially said the same thing. No offense, but bodybuilders are not athletes. I just took up competing so I wouldn’t turn into a fat ex football player. Some took up track or other activities so as not to sit around. Unless you are a super lean genetic mutant, getting too lean hurts performance. I agree with you Ange. WHen I diet super hard, I fell like crap. Like I said, that’s on north of 3000 calories per day. If I altered my macro nutrients, I woul never get as lean, but I would have energy. It’s a catch 22 for most of us.
speedcoach, maybe I misunderstood, but you were consuming 3000 calories per day during a lean out phase?
speedcoach is a big dude! no joke 
somewhere there abouts. I was eating roughly 4500 per day trying to get mass up and I think I peaked out the one year at 280 lbs. I am 5’9" so I guess I was kinda big. I hated eating that much. If I cut calories to like 3000, I could lose 25 lbs in like 5-6 weeks without doing anything different. Now metabolism is not what it used to be. Fatter than I am comfortable with right now. Skipping too many meals and replacing them with protein bars and such. Guess I picked up my wifes baby weight. Haha
I 2nd that emotion!
Thanks for the response.
I guess I was the one who brought bodybuilding into this because I was trying to use that as an example of how much more difficult it becomes to reach the very lowest levels of bodyfat.
So so true. I have said many times, I used to be a great athlete til I got into bodybuilding. It took away a lot of athleticism. Ange, you always look good and move like a cat. I remember you demonstrating starts in Toronto with Ian and Charlie and was blown away. You’re physique was a product of the training to get fast, leaness was a consequence, in bodybuilding, it’s get lean at all costs. That was my point ot Race radio. Peformance is #1, #2, #3, etc. Looking great is number #20.
a few years ago Sports Illustrated had a pictorial article showing the bodies of a range of elite athletes which was interesting, most were in no way reflective of being geared towards BBing .
John, how true. I remember we had a feww guys who looked lik they could knock down a wall and they were crappy football players. During college football when I played in the late 80’s early 90’s, it was a lot of do your own thing. Most training was geared toward hypertrophy with little consideration into power. I used to do a lot of squat, bench , and deadlifts. I think because my biceps were 20+ and my forearms were big, I had crappy clean form. Reduced rotation at elbow and wrist. Can’t do a clean catch due to actual physical muscle not allowing me to. I wanted to be great at them, but I just stuck to deadlifts. The body beautiful guys ussually didn’t do much. 2 of our best players were weak as kittens, but absolutely sick WR and RB. Didn’t look like killers, but played like it.
I was taking to a lad I coach today. He goes to the gym and does a program in 20 minutes, he is is swetting heavily in his upper body. He said he looks at what the others are doing and then asked me what’s their point. He weighs 66kg, average height for a 20yr white guy, can bench 30x50kg in 50 seconds, the same for the next 4 exercises.
I class the program we use as body building. A 56 year old body building mate came up with it, I am targetting muscle groups.
What other class would it come under?