Man I just came back from rolling with some buddies on the mat. This shit is mad fun and it works in the street. Anybody else here do Brazillain Ju-Jitsu. It’s good exercise and a good place to chill with friends.
I prefer the arts that are not in Tournaments…stuff that works…
Brazillian Ju-Jitsu works! It’s submission grappling! Most fights go to the ground. Most no-holds barred fighters know Brazillian Ju-Jitsu. I’m not a violent person but I know freinds who have succesfully used it on the streets in fights. It’s crazy you go all out when you wrestle. I went against a guy who was a community college state champ wrestler or something a few years ago who is 230 and can bench 385 tonight!He is strong as an ox,crazy!
I also practiced takedowns. I was up on my feet going all out trying to take down this strong wrestler. Takedowns help you in a fight!
BJJ is a fine and interesting sport and in common with all sports it requires a great deal of training and attributes to be successful in competition against other practitioners.
However, while grappling may have its place in an altercation, any serious encounter will not be conducted on a mat according to the rules of sport BJJ wearing a gi under the supervision of a referee.
While BJJ will give you a taste of fighting on the ground it will not prepare you physically or mentally to deal with the sort of challenges you are going to have to deal with in the case of a serious assault. The simple introduction of a weapon would for example challenge you technically, tactically and psychologically in a way for which you will be ill prepared if your fight experience is limited to BJJ.
In summary OK for a fight while at school but likely to get you into trouble if you take it any further.
I train in freestyle fighting, which is basically this…if it works, use it. Most of our training is wrestling, BJJ, and Kickboxing. I was in Karate for 7 years, and freestlye is far beyond anything I ever learned there. I also used to box which has alot of application so long as you are also trained in grappling/wrestling.
It does prepare you pretty well for fights that don’t involve weapons and multiple people. I agree if the guy has a weapon it is not effective. I don’t get in fights anyways I just do Ju-Jitsu for fun but if a guy pulled out a weapon on me I’m running away. I know freinds who have used Ju-Jitsu pretty effetively in bar fights.
BJJ has a comprehensive array of defenses against knife, stick, club, gun, etc. Anybody who dismisses BJJ as ineffective against weapons has not studied BJJ thoroughly. As for “stuff that works”, c’mon kids, that is an old one. Of course we all know TKD and karate are pretty worthless in a fight against a seasoned fighter…or even a decent wrestler…or a good boxer…the way to be proficient in fighting is to not limit the environment in which you train: That is, you should train standing, on the ground, with sticks, clubs, knives, guns, shoulder launched anti-tank missiles, etc.
Bohersch-I am sorry but I will have to disagree with you on this one.
You start by making a circular argument by asserting that anyone who dismisses BJJ as ineffective against weapons has not studied BJJ thoroughly but do not define what a thorough study is.
From what I have seen the weapon defenses derive from Judo/jiu jitsu as the parent art and are not in my opinion at all realistic but the fact of the matter is that I have seen little if any self defense taught whether it be in Los Angeles, New York, London or Rio.
Disregarding the precise techniques taught I would also be very wary about transferring any skills learnt in a dojo wearing a gi/kimono to the harsh reality of a serious assault involving weapons. It is in my view lunacy to encourage someone to think that they are prepared for such encounters after training in the comfortable confines of the dojo with a cooperative partner-a point I think you also make.
Finally, I reiterate my original point which is that BJJ is a sport conducted under rules and which requires much time to be spent on the development of techniques and attributes which have nothing to do with self defense.
I agree with the rest of your sentiments other than about BJJ.
BJJ is not necessarily a sport. Maybe at the school down the road, but the BJJ school in the hood is for real. At my school, which is just a mishmash of styles where a bunch of street fighter dudes hang out and beat each other up, we get taught different techniques for different situations. With one BJJ technique (BJJ is the martial art my istructor is certified in to teach), we will learn how to use it on the street, and then we will apply the “gentleman rules” so instead of gripping the head via the eye cavity or pulling hair, we will use our forearm and crank up in the bridge of the nose.
With knife fighting our number one rule is “you will get cut.” it is a matter of who is standing long enough afterwards to call the ambulance. We have alot of gruff guys in my club that I honestly am glad I know them, cause if I didnt and ticked one of them off it would be a scary thing. As far as application goes with these guys, we have at least one good fight story per week in the club (I think some of the guys are the initiators). Even the guys who are a ripped 210lbs and experienced fighters get caught with sucker punches once and a while and get beat up. 2 weeks ago one guy got hit with brass knuckles right out of nowhere. His teeth are still loose. The other guys nose will need pastic surgery though to fix as it was on the side of his face after he got one punched (and then picked up and one punched again, and then picked up and one punched again, at which point the guy from my club got tired of picking him up and left him there). www.fighttraining.com is my clubs site.
What do you mean when you say that BJJ is not necessarily a sport?
Of course any activity can be used for some other purpose but to imply that it is practised in one form “at the school down the road” and in a “real” form “in the hood” is a total misrepresentation of how the sport is practised throughout the world by its leading proponents from New York to Rio.
If you use or modify some of the techniques to form a hybrid style in preparation for the street then you are simply setting yourself apart from BJJ-you are not practising a more “real” version. The “real” version is being taught by the Gracies, the Machados, by Marcio Feitosa at Gracie Barra etc,etc
Please give me your pedigree in martial arts.
Before things get carried away…let’s do our best to keep this site one for information regarding training. What specifically were we talking about regarding martial arts? What sort of energy systems are used etc? How do each of us train (volumes, intesities, recovery) and in what mainstream sport can we find parallels with BJJ, or other similar martial arts. And, how should one go about training in martial arts if they are using it stricly for self-defense. You can’t do a 10 day taper for the next time you are going to be held at gunpoint.
Herb- we were talking about BJJ and its practicality for self defense.
My position as a BJJ blue belt and from observation of training at leading schools from the US to Rio is that it is a sport concerned with competition excellence and technical development according to the rules of the sport. As such it has little to do with self defense. If my observations are incorrect then no doubt some one will seek to correct me.
With respect to you, I have done little other than argue the above position. I do not think that anything has got out of hand except to the extent that you were responsible for introducing dubious anecdotes about bar fighters!
The discussion can be widened to training as you suggest but the thread appears to have engendered little interest amongst others.
Bohersch-I do not recognise myself as having a pedigree although presumably you ask to denigrate my views? For what it is worth I started Judo in 1964 and have trained, competed or coached ever since. I currently coach freestyle wrestling. I have boxed and have run through the usual array of martial arts in my time for the little it is worth.
I was not denigrating your views…I merely wanted to establish your perspective…as a blue belt in jiu jitsu, depending on what school or instructor, you may be just a beginner…and therefore, as you progress, you’ll be more able to pass judgement on what BJJ has to offer.
Bohersch-quite frankly my grade in BJJ is immaterial in all this. I make my observations about BJJ from the perspective of someone who has been on the mat for many years and from participation in the sport with some of the best in the world. I am not some young wide eyed guy about to have the secrets of grappling revealed to him.
My knowledge is derived from visiting the most reputable schools in Europe,US and Brazil to where I will be returning at the end of the year.
Where is it the real BJJ taught if not at Gracie Barra, Humaita or Top Team?
What is your experience of BJJ which contradicts my observations?
Wow! You are amazing! I assume Rickson, Royce, Royler, Rorion, and Helio will be coming to see you for tips. Yes, your rank (experience) does mean a great deal in the discussion. If you have not golfed, you cannot intelligently comment on the nuances of the game. If you have played 20 rounds of golf, you are still not qualified to say that Tiger Woods would be better off using a 3 iron than a 5 wood. Good luck with your “visits” to various training facilities…you’ll need it.
Bohersch- I suspected that you were simply seeking to personalise this discussion and your latest post unfortunately supports that view. I simply asked you to let me know your experience which contradicted my observations and you can do no better than respond with an ad hominem attack.
My position is simply that I have a long and comprehensive experience in grappling not limited to BJJ and my observation of BJJ as practised in Brazil and elsewhere does not support the assertions that you are making.
I do not need “good luck” as I have been to Brazil before and nothing that I have seen gives any credence to your views- to the extent that
you can be bothered to support them instead of making an infantile attack on me.
Quite clearly a further exchange on this topic will serve no further purpose.
I train in Vale Tudo which is more of an offshoot of BJJ and is used for NHB fighting. It combines kickboxing, Mui Thai, and BJJ with no Gi. For hand-to-hand combat (no weapons) the techniques I have learned would be extremely useful and effective in a street altercation. But as soon as you throw weapons of any kind into the situation the techniques fall short. Given the majority of people do not train in martial arts at all, I would say any combat sport training would give you an edge over most people; simply in reaction time to attacks and what not.
If you want a true street defense martial art that prepares you for most types of weapons and situations, with teaches you techniques that could like likely land you in prison learn Krav Maga.
I have to say that this is one of the most fun yet exhausting workouts I can think of. In all my years of sprinting I hated how much it hurt and finally decided to retire after I decided I didn’t enjoy the sport enough to endure the pain of training. This is a whole other world. I don’t think I have ever had so much fun while building up so much lactic acid.
Two words KRAV MAGA!!!