Am I the only one who doesn't believe in DRIVE PHASE?

General Discussion Debates
1

I’ve argued this one into the ground on atoboldon.com, but it’s a hopeless debate to entertain because nobody is willing to consider the blasphemous suggestion that Ato, who trumpets the virtues of the HSI “drive phase” ad nauseum, is incorrect about something. Just today he posted a long-winded rant about how Asafa Powell is so great because he has the best “drive phase” ever, and how the 100m is getting more competitive because everybody is copying the HSI “drive phase” and blah blah blah… it’s sickening how blindly he and others accept this philosophy.

In case you can’t tell, I’m not really impressed with this “drive phase” concept.

To my knowledge, the HSI people have not explicity defined the “drive phase”, but, from what I can gether, it entails at least two principle things:

  1. delayed acceleration
  2. keeping the head down

With regard to #1, while the emphasis on energy conservation at the start may is valid, it seems illogical to focus on literally delaying acceleration. You’d get buried if you actively tried to do this. Rather, it seems that the correct strategy should be to accelerate, as quickly as possible, to the fastest speed that can be maintained for the duration of the race without slowing down. This should produce the fastest average speed over the entire race distance, which of course is equivalent to the fastest finishing time. In fact, I suspect that this is what the “drive phase” sprinters are actually doing when they think they’re delaying acceleration. The 10m splits indicate that the sprinters who claim to the employ the “drive phase” philosophy of delaying acceleration are getting out just as fast as anyone during their fastest performances and yet are decelerating very little toward the end of the race. Greene, Montgomery, and Powell had already demolished the fields by 40m during their WR runs - didn’t see any delayed acceleration there.

The second concept, keeping the head down, has even less merit IMO. What biomechanical advantage could this possibly confer? Some people say that it looks “smoother”, but that doesn’t really mean anything. I have asked over and over again for Ato or somebody else to provide reasoning for this one and I never get anything except “Ato and Mo do it, so it must be correct” and yada yada yada. Bullshit, I say. Not that it neccessarily hurts anybody - I suppose it might not make a difference if one becomes accustomed to running that way - but there’s simply no reason to do this. There’s simply no reason to keep your neck in flexion when your trunk is already fully upright.

I also think that the “drive phase” is an artificial concept and an arbitrary division of the race. Doesn’t it make more sense to consider the 100m as a whole rather than to divide the race into segments? After all, the race is to the finish line.

Anyway, I’m interested to hear Charlie’s take on this… I’ve never heard him ramble on about drive phase this, keep your head down that, etc.

2

I second that. It’s just a brand name for sg. that does not really exist, the way “they” describe it or call it vaguely…

I think I can remember that Charlie once stated it is Bull… (guess his expression was more elegant) to believe you could delay acceleration in a 100m race. It’s about every 1/100th of a second so you can’t waste even one 1/100th.

Why “drive phase” still works is: as long as you accelerate, meaning as long as there is negative foot speed, a forward body lean is useful - but the point is: head down or not is not really important, it can even lead to break your “flow of smooth acceleration” if you hold down your head and then suddenly rise it.

Of course your head will be down as you can’t look at the finish line when your body shows a strong forward lean. But call “head down” a symptom, not a remedy.

I think Charlies approach was always: accleration has to be smooth and follow natural patterns of movement and biomechanical requirements. Head down and delayed acceleration are not.

Look at Ben and Florence - they ran sub 9.80 and sub 10.50 without overemphasizing what some call “drive phase”.

And for Ato - well he’s the world’s second GOAT and he talks a lot about how things used to be, should be and will be, has a lot of fans and little suckers like we should not be blasphemic :wink:

3

Isn’t it all about a smooth transition so your hips don’t drop? Perhaps the head down thing is a good coaching point rather than a necessity?

As for delaying acceleration, maybe they just mean relaxing during excelleration rather than pushing it (“waiting for it”).

Once you can run Sub 10.8 you are getting stupidly fast. I doubt there are many ways to get better other than working towards flat out acceleration from the blocks to the finish line (obviously this is the aim though at the moment it appears to be impossible). Delaying acceleration to try and achieve higher top speed (per Carl Lewis - though this was not deliberate) may have a slight advantage for some athletes aiming for 10 flat but the quicker the time the less opportunity you have for any
error.

In my experience people do things that work even though they don’t know why and then make up elaborate reasons to justify thier position. Why not just say “hey it works for me”?

4

Great post… I was once one of the athlete’s to get caught up in whole ‘head down’ drive phase bs…I don’t anymore.Head and eyes slightly forward and I’m ready to roll!! This works fine for me!

5

Thanks guys.

I also think that the “drive phase” is an artificial concept and an arbitrary division of the race. Doesn’t it make more sense to consider the 100m as a whole rather than to divide the race into segments?

EDIT: I added this to my original post.

6

how can i sum this up. Yes i know

Shut up!

7

Division of the race helps sometimes with training. It’s part or the art of coaching. Often times if an athlete views the race as a whole it may cause them to rush the race.
“Drive phase” could mean: be aggressive with the arms, make sure the back brings the head up, relax and go through the full range of motion. Or what ever cue it takes to get your athlete to execute the first part of the race correct.

8

Concur with your premise. The drive phase is not for everyone. However, if you go back to Greene prior to Smith’s influence, you will find an athlete that had moderate consistent speed endurance. For him, it would make sense to possibly revise the distribution of his race. Though, as we know now, there are other options to improve this area.

Aside from prolonging the head position, the process resembles more the SMTC approach. As opposed to calling it delayed acceleration, it may have been termed, maxV offset or relocating the onset of max velocity.

Can Powell et al increase the maxV region and/or improve the speed endurance area by reducing drive phase? And if so, how? And if not, does the drive phase require greater power levels to produce higher speed zone amplitudes?

9

if you look at mos WR run, he uses the drive phase the least.

10

KevinG, are you Smooth D. or have you just copied and pasted?

11

Can you explain? We frown upon people who copy other’s work and take credit for themselves.

12

I did not copy anything.

13

In the past I think CF has stated that the faster the athlete is the longer their accel is. This is not neccesarily a delayed accel, just that the faster athlete has the abilty to accel for longer and hit a higher top speed.

Also, the later one hits top speed, the less distance their is to decel.

14

I believe I could provide clarification of the drive phase ---- it is the same thing as a transition phase, it is where you get taller lifting the hips to prepare your self for the maximum potetntial at your highest speed.

I belive that is the phase of the race for HSI after the lift their head.

Maybe they keep their heads down cause they don’t want to get lost and they are watching the lines… HAHAHAHAHHAH

15

it’s sickening how blindly he and others accept this philosophy

You would not believe how many people would believe that about you and some of the other posters on this site…Ironic isn’t

To my knowledge, the HSI people have not explicity defined the “drive phase”, but, from what I can gether, it entails at least two principle things:

  1. delayed acceleration
  2. keeping the head down

With regard to #1, while the emphasis on energy conservation at the start may is valid, it seems illogical to focus on literally delaying acceleration.

I think in order for you to argue a point, you have to understand both sides. The athletes who are just trying to copy, are the ones who may be taking things literally. And thats no fault of John Smith, Ato, etc. Smith doesn’t teach anyone to literally delay top speed. There might be a better term that can be used, but thats not what he teaches.

Rather, it seems that the correct strategy should be to accelerate, as quickly as possible, to the fastest speed that can be maintained for the duration of the race without slowing down.

I wonder if Jon Drummond and Leonard Scott feel the same way. No matter what your level of speed endurance, the faster you hit your top speed the sooner you start to decelerate. The whole point is to get the most out of yourself.

Greene, Montgomery, and Powell had already demolished the fields by 40m during their WR runs - didn’t see any delayed acceleration there.

The only one that this applied to was Powell. He was the only one that was clear of the field early on. In Greene’s record run, Ato, was with him til 60-70m. Monty had Chambers with him until 60m. Which is one of the reasons, I say his reaction time did nothing to help him in that race. But thats another story. And just because they accelerate well doesn’t mean they aren’t doing what we call a “drive phase”.

I have asked over and over again for Ato or somebody else to provide reasoning for this one and I never get anything except “Ato and Mo do it, so it must be correct” and yada yada yada. Bullshit, I say.

I’ve heard so many times that “Charlie does it”, “I do it because charlie said so”, “Ben didn’t do it”, etc Bullshit I say…

There’s simply no reason to keep your neck in flexion when your trunk is already fully upright.

Again the athletes being coached by Smith don’t do this. The head is always inline with their back during the race. The ones who don’t understand do what you speak of.

I also think that the “drive phase” is an artificial concept and an arbitrary division of the race. Doesn’t it make more sense to consider the 100m as a whole rather than to divide the race into segments? After all, the race is to the finish line.

  1. What do you have to do to get to top speed?(accelerate)
  2. What do you call it when you go from one thing to the other(look up the word transition in the dictionary)
  3. What do you do when you want something to continue doing what it was doing?(look up maintanance)
16

According to Charlie, Ben Johnson had a similar problem… Ben alleviated this problem after watching countless hours of Carl Lewis running and realized that he needed to relax more in order to minimize deceleration as opposed to forcing any type of change in his race pattern!

17

Keep your head down, ie, whilst your trunk in leaning forward, keep your head in line with it, ie, you will be looking down. if you raise your head before you trunk, your trunk will snap up straight before your drive phase or acceleration has finnished.
Delay top speed, ie, finnish your acceleration first, or drive phase first, then worry about top speed as you are coming out off or finnishing drive phase, or acceleration. Focus on the now, not 15steps in front.
Just my 2c