a pump that hurts!!

[flying_duck_1]

Well, it might sound strange but I’m sure someone has passed by something like this before.

Its basically the following.

When I start warming up my calfs get so pumped after about 2-3 laps. And they start hurting so much. Not the muscles. But the pump its self press so hard that it hurts!! I sometimes have to sit down for a minute before I can stand up and start my stretching routine! The same happens in Tempo runs!! How many tempo sessions have I had to stop just because my calfs were so pumped and hurt so much? A lot. Even though my breath is fine and my muscles are fine. My calfs are strong I believe.
I never face any of this during my speed sessions. Nor in plyometrics or in the gym. But I have noticed that when I sit on the arm cycle ( a bicycle macine but for the arms ) I get a simillar feeling in my arms!! It always happens with low intensity stuff. I can do high intensity for ages and feel absolutly ok. But when it comes to low intensity I fear that pump that presses hard on the skin… Its such a strange feeling that I don’t see much with my friends who train as well. I once talk to a friend of mine about it and about how serious I’m struggleing from it he said that I was kidding because these are signs of someone may be new to training or poorly conditioned. I’ve been training very hard for quite a while now and I’m not poorly conditioned I believe.

When I do massage. It will may be last for a little longer and then start coming. So instead of on the 5th or 6th tempo run. It’ll come on the 10th or 11th…

I don’t take any supplements that would cause such a pump. I also stopped creatine for a month now. No results. I was taking less than 5g a day to ensure I don’t fall into this. But it just happens.

I also recognized that it comes in general preperation. In that time when I practice a lot and eat a lot as well. My weight will go up and I’m pretty heavy. But still I recall times when I was 10kg less than what I am today and I still had to suffer from this strange condition.

I wish someone can have any scientific explaination or whatever this could mean. I just can’t get it sorted out in my head.

[tamfb]

whats supp are you taking?

[flying_duck_1]

Nothing much really. A protien powder, multi-vitamin, B complex, glutamine and creatine, which I stopped.

I knew someone would ask this question but as I told you. I get the same feeling when I’m not on any supplements.

[robin1]

Can you describe your symptoms more precisely? Is the pain uni- or bilateral? where is it located (a diagram would be useful)? Does it build up gradually or occur suddenly? What type of pain is it (sharp, dull, localised, diffuse,…)? By “pump” do you mean there is a pulsating sensation? If yes, does this correspond to your heartbeat? Is there any tingling sensation like your legs are falling asleep?

[jamirok]

seem a fascial restriction of the lower leg, deep tissue massage, ART, foam, stretching can help you OR bad training/recovery cycle.

[flying_duck_1]

@robin1

Can you describe your symptoms more precisely? Is the pain uni- or bilateral? where is it located (a diagram would be useful)? Does it build up gradually or occur suddenly? What type of pain is it (sharp, dull, localised, diffuse,…)? By “pump” do you mean there is a pulsating sensation? If yes, does this correspond to your heartbeat? Is there any tingling sensation like your legs are falling asleep?

Well. I can feel my heart beat clearly in the area. It covers the area and I really don’t know how to describe it. But I have something very very simillar to describe the pain. Imagine you are in a gym, ok and then you hook your legs to something high and hang with your legs up and your head down. The blood will keep pumping your head until you will start to feel pain in your head as if its going to explode. Its very much the same thing. It comes gradual by the way and it only goes away when I sit down. I can do a complete speed session after sitting dwon for a while and not feel a thing!

[flying_duck_1]

@jamirok

seem a fascial restriction of the lower leg, deep tissue massage, ART, foam, stretching can help you OR bad training/recovery cycle.

whats fascial restriction??

[d_nasty]

@flying_duck_1

whats fascial restriction??

basicly the sheath surrounding the muscle is too tight.

not a positive thing.

[robin1]

@flying_duck_1

whats fascial restriction??

Fascia is a layer of connective tissue that surrounds your muscles. In the calves, the fascia forms compartments of muscle groups that prevent muscles from expanding. When the calve muscles contract they are thus squeezed within their compartment, which helps to pump blood back out of the lower limbs and towards the heart. Without these compartments, blood would pool in the foot and leg like it does in your head when you hang upside-down. In your case, your compartments seem to be excessively tight so that venous blood flow is impeded when your calves swell up during exercise.

[jamirok]

@robin1

Fascia is a layer of connective tissue that surrounds your muscles. In the calves, the fascia forms compartments of muscle groups that prevent muscles from expanding. When the calve muscles contract they are thus squeezed within their compartment, which helps to pump blood back out of the lower limbs and towards the heart. Without these compartments, blood would pool in the foot and leg like it does in your head when you hang upside-down. In your case, your compartments seem to be excessively tight so that venous blood flow is impeded when your calves swell up during exercise.

excellent

[dr.sprint]

I have had that. It usually occurs on week 3 during the warmup.

[flying_duck_1]

So what in training could have led to such a condition and what could be done to make it go??

[John]

@flying_duck_1

So what in training could have led to such a condition and what could be done to make it go??

about 6 posts up

seem a fascial restriction of the lower leg, deep tissue massage, ART, foam, stretching can help you OR bad training/recovery cycle.

[flying_duck_1]

@John

about 6 posts up

seem a fascial restriction of the lower leg, deep tissue massage, ART, foam, stretching can help you OR bad training/recovery cycle.

The problem is that it really doesn’t go. And I do massage and I rest and I stretch. I also do a lot of contrasts (a complete hot tub and a cold one right beside it) which gives me a great contrast session. I do Ice baths. The problem now is a little more complicated. I consentrated on stretching my stiff hamstrings in a week end and then I injured my hamstring a few days after that. I don’t have a clear explaination for that, but when I do a lot of stretching after a workout on a specific muscle then it will tear in no more than a couple of days if not the next session. It has ALWAYS been that way for me… I don’t have an explaination and I really don’t want one. Its just a fact for me and I have a lot of reasons to justify why such a thing could happen. The thing is that now all I do is low intensity stuff along with the usual gym. But since that is all I can do in the past and comeing few days then , I gotta do it. And I can’t anymore because of this strange condition… So I don’t do high int. because of the injury. So I’m always recovered!! and I still do massage, ice, stretching(to a limit, I don’t want to re injure) and contrasts. and I still get the damn pain. I took 2 days of rest of the track and I got it again when I came back. Something’s wrong. What is it? I don’t know. As for doctors. I don’t go to doctors… Why?? Because I live in a third world country, I think that is self explaintory… So sometimes the opinions I get on the forum is all I have to help me.

I was going to be in Valencia 2008 100% without the hamstring injury. After the hamstring I thought I was still on my way. All I wanted was to stay fit and run 100% in a couple of weeks time. But now I feel discomfort that is making the trip to the track just feel so painful from the thought of the pain that I get when I warm up or do some conditioning to keep my fitness till the hamstring heels (which is absolutly no problem for me… I know how to handle hamstring issue well, and fast…) Its just that my trials will be on the 10th of Feb. and I don’t want to waste more time…

[John]

You are in a bad way

I wonder if there is something you are doing in the stretches that is causing the issue?

I too have calf issues and find I can’t even start off doing a jog around so here is what I do before every workout. NOTE I’m not saying this is the best way to warm up just what I find works for me, I still have issues from time to time and am still not the most flexible around but more so than many, esp those who have no other treatment.

All the below is done relaxed and continuous.

done over 20m on grass

• walking on toes swinging arms vertically

• walking on heels swinging arms horizontally

• (not done walking) SLOW calf stretches with hands on ground and heels raised pressing heels down

• walking butt kicks

• walking A’s

• walking B’s

• Lunges with upper body twist

• hip circles 10 each way

• lie on back bring knees towards butt then lift one leg off ground, push other foot to ground focus on glutes/ hams and try and keep middle / lower back on ground x 10 each leg

• full range situps x 10

• knees side to side x 5 each side

• on back hands together at side of head legs straight, situp and bring hands to feet x 5 each side

• on back hands together above head, legs spread, situp and bring hands to feet x 5 each side

• lie on stomach and straight leg lift each leg x 10 focus on glutes / hams

• on hands and knees, lift one leg off ground and bring forwards and push to straight back focus on pushing heel straight back x 10 each leg

• on hands and knees, lift one leg off ground and move to side (like a dog peeing )

• face down, arms out in line with shoulders, alternate leg swings towards opposite hand (L leg to R hand) x 10 each leg

• back down, arms out in line with shoulders, alternate leg swings towards opposite hand (L leg to R hand) x 10 each leg

• standing up, leg swings across body x 10 each leg

• standing up, leg swings along body x 10 each leg

Drills over 10-12m on grass all done x 3 with walkback rec
Butt kicks
A skips
B skips
Running A’s

I used to do straight leg drill but found this aggravated my calf so dropped it.

strideouts over 60m on grass, walk back rec
jog
tempo speed
buildup to near max then ease back

I then start my workout.

Post workout
around soccer pitch x 1 SLOW jog length then on the widths
backwards jog to the 18 yard box
sideways L to penalty box
sideways R through penalty box
sideways L to 18 yard box
backwards jog to sideline

I use my med ball a fair bit with abs doing exercises from CF GPP and med ball DVD

Often before I stretch I do med ball full body circles x 10 each way.

As for stretch I use pretty much the same one every time (I’ll add a few others in occasionaly) and hold each position for a count of 10. I used to be a HOPELESS stretcher and found this an adequate balance between nothing and going over the top. It is based on the one at the bottom of this article http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459683&cr= I know the guy is a shyster but I find the stretch routine works for me ok

I use a foam roller around 2-3 times pw (not for long maybe 10-15 minutes watching TV) and self massage calf’s 3 - 4 times pw, nothing flash just a rub. I do hurdle walkovers and over / unders at least 1 x pw.

In the last week or so I have also started doing full ROM squats 5 or so times per day as per http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085&cr=
while not great at them at present (I still need support to get right down) I have already noticed an improvement in ROM on deads and hurdles as well as my hip flexors feeling a lot more relaxed.

Like I said at the start I’m not saying it is THE way to address this but hopefully it gives you some ideas…or not

[robin1]

The only thing I can suggest at this stage would be to massage your calves before you start your tempo workouts and then again after every fourth or fifth run. Instead of walking 100m after a 200m run, for example, you could just sit down and massage your calves for 1:30 minutes. Make sure to always massage towards the heart (up the leg), as this will assist with venous return as well as lymphatic drainage. If that also doesn’t work you may need to start doing your tempo on a bike or in a pool. Alternatively, Youngy’s posts on this site have some interesting information about how sprinters can get fit without even using their legs.

Regarding stretching: Vigorous stretching can cause micro-damage to muscles and tendons thus predisposing them to injury. Active isolated stretching (AIS) may be an alternative.

I hope you’ll get better soon,
Robin.

[flying_duck_1]

@John

You are in a bad way

I wonder if there is something you are doing in the stretches that is causing the issue?

I too have calf issues and find I can’t even start off doing a jog around so here is what I do before every workout. NOTE I’m not saying this is the best way to warm up just what I find works for me, I still have issues from time to time and am still not the most flexible around but more so than many, esp those who have no other treatment.

All the below is done relaxed and continuous.

done over 20m on grass

• walking on toes swinging arms vertically

• walking on heels swinging arms horizontally

• (not done walking) SLOW calf stretches with hands on ground and heels raised pressing heels down

• walking butt kicks

• walking A’s

• walking B’s

• Lunges with upper body twist

• hip circles 10 each way

• lie on back bring knees towards butt then lift one leg off ground, push other foot to ground focus on glutes/ hams and try and keep middle / lower back on ground x 10 each leg

• full range situps x 10

• knees side to side x 5 each side

• on back hands together at side of head legs straight, situp and bring hands to feet x 5 each side

• on back hands together above head, legs spread, situp and bring hands to feet x 5 each side

• lie on stomach and straight leg lift each leg x 10 focus on glutes / hams

• on hands and knees, lift one leg off ground and bring forwards and push to straight back focus on pushing heel straight back x 10 each leg

• on hands and knees, lift one leg off ground and move to side (like a dog peeing )

• face down, arms out in line with shoulders, alternate leg swings towards opposite hand (L leg to R hand) x 10 each leg

• back down, arms out in line with shoulders, alternate leg swings towards opposite hand (L leg to R hand) x 10 each leg

• standing up, leg swings across body x 10 each leg

• standing up, leg swings along body x 10 each leg

Drills over 10-12m on grass all done x 3 with walkback rec
Butt kicks
A skips
B skips
Running A’s

I used to do straight leg drill but found this aggravated my calf so dropped it.

strideouts over 60m on grass, walk back rec
jog
tempo speed
buildup to near max then ease back

I then start my workout.

Post workout
around soccer pitch x 1 SLOW jog length then on the widths
backwards jog to the 18 yard box
sideways L to penalty box
sideways R through penalty box
sideways L to 18 yard box
backwards jog to sideline

I use my med ball a fair bit with abs doing exercises from CF GPP and med ball DVD

Often before I stretch I do med ball full body circles x 10 each way.

As for stretch I use pretty much the same one every time (I’ll add a few others in occasionaly) and hold each position for a count of 10. I used to be a HOPELESS stretcher and found this an adequate balance between nothing and going over the top. It is based on the one at the bottom of this article http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459683&cr= I know the guy is a shyster but I find the stretch routine works for me ok

I use a foam roller around 2-3 times pw (not for long maybe 10-15 minutes watching TV) and self massage calf’s 3 - 4 times pw, nothing flash just a rub. I do hurdle walkovers and over / unders at least 1 x pw.

In the last week or so I have also started doing full ROM squats 5 or so times per day as per http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085&cr=
while not great at them at present (I still need support to get right down) I have already noticed an improvement in ROM on deads and hurdles as well as my hip flexors feeling a lot more relaxed.

Like I said at the start I’m not saying it is THE way to address this but hopefully it gives you some ideas…or not

Interesting. John, I have had a dynamic warm up routine close to yours. One that is specific but progresses slowly, instead of the normal warming up everyone does. I never got injured on that warm up routine and I never had to struggle with my clafs either. I stopped that though because there was a lot of opposition to such warm ups on the forum here. I started to jog for 3 laps and do a static stretchs routine and feel like “now I will start to warm up”!! I felt like my 3 jogging laps and stretching were useless. Infact. They were the real definition of “Warming up to warm up”. I did them only as a home work because its like accepted by everyone… But then they were just something that gives me nothing or wastes nothing, (other than time) But now they are hurting my calfs right from the start of the session. So you have popped out something in my head. Why not back to my old dynamic warm up? I guess that is something I Will have to shift too as soon as possible.

[flying_duck_1]

@robin1

The only thing I can suggest at this stage would be to massage your calves before you start your tempo workouts and then again after every fourth or fifth run. Instead of walking 100m after a 200m run, for example, you could just sit down and massage your calves for 1:30 minutes. Make sure to always massage towards the heart (up the leg), as this will assist with venous return as well as lymphatic drainage. If that also doesn’t work you may need to start doing your tempo on a bike or in a pool. Alternatively, Youngy’s posts on this site have some interesting information about how sprinters can get fit without even using their legs.

Regarding stretching: Vigorous stretching can cause micro-damage to muscles and tendons thus predisposing them to injury. Active isolated stretching (AIS) may be an alternative.

I hope you’ll get better soon,
Robin.

Thanks man. I’ll also do a search on AIS various techniques. Do you really believe one can get fit without using his legs. I mean specifically of course??

[John]

@flying_duck_1

I never got injured on that warm up routine and I never had to struggle with my clafs either. I stopped that though because there was a lot of opposition to such warm ups on the forum here.

If it worked for you why change it? Sometimes you have to do what needs to be done not what is ideal.

I don’t recall a lot of opposition to those type of warmups in fact I thought there was more for than against. I also keep in mind that any warmup should start off slowly and progressively gets faster, how slow is dependent on the athlete.

Regardless I hope you get these calf issues behind you and can get back to where you should be