[I’ve seen the damage done by programs filled with intermediate non-specific lactate work. I’ve seen the proof, base on Omega wave research and, in Vancouver we were shown that the damage to long-term aerobic capacity is permanent.]
[The heart wall thickens prematurely, limiting stroke vol for the future]
As the 800m is largely Aerobic, yet the speed of the event creates large demands for Lactic buffering ability, how would one target such an event? If you train too anaerobically for too much of the time, and the Heart wall thickens, then developing an aerobic system large enough to sustain one to last long enough to be able to Sprint at the end might be limited?
Unless one can counter balance the effects off Lots of anaerobic running with plenty of Aerobic running as well? Maybe that’s why off season mid distance runners are knows for doing up to 100k per wk?
Also, to create more confusion :rolleyes:
Can/could a 800m program be done off a CFTS design?
ie,
monday - 20min jog, Big tempo, med ball
tue - speed endurance with max recovery (3x400’s) - weights
wed - As monday
Thurs - Speed - in’s n out’s - weights
Fri - as monday
Sat - speed endurance - 2 x mile runs with max recovery
sun - Rest
Some comments by Charlie about 800 trainingthat I saved from the old forum:
“The 800m is a bit of a different event because of its mixed requirements. I’d train for it with shorter intervals and split-runs, with rep distances between 100 and 200m. Later pace work could include distances out to 600m- at the projected race pace but not necessarily any faster. I don’t see any value in long slow runs that can’t be better met with easy extensive tempo (4000m of tempo will always be superior to the approx 7500m of continuous running that you are doing.
Any thoughts?”
On getting you fitter, for sure, without doubt.
However, one should still be able to run a 5k jog without hinderance. It should be real easy, and you should feel like your floating. A 20min jog through the bush, then followed by a Big Circuit to get you fit, i think should be easy going.
Even though long slow runs wont make you fit, i think they still have their place. However, what does one define as Long Slow run? Ask any Distance guy, and they will tell you the longer the better - like 1hr+ minimium. However, i would think; an 800 is run in under 2min! A long run for them should be like 5k, maybe the odd 8k? Sometimes, i find a long slow run flushes me out better than a Tempo session. And it can act as a fantastic warm up!
Split runs, they are great.
Hard runs out out to 600 are great
Perhaps one of the best workouts i have done for 800m, was a Seb Coe workout, They range from 100-300m, increasing in distance and speed, and as you get fitter, they reduce in recovery.
Can you provide some more information? Since they are doing speed work twice per week, what stage in their training are they in? What else is included in the week? Thanks! Keep at it!
Bold IMHO those 5k runs could be a part of the program but all the time and used as a warm up pre tempo. To what extent obviously it depends on the phase.
With your sample week why 3 high intensity days and not 2? Especially as you say the event is very much aerobic.
One of them is preparing for London in April, so by now there are 2 speed sessions/week: Tuesday and Friday. The speed intervals are 1200’s (as opposed to 6x600m intervals nearer the start of the schedule.) Rests are about 10 minutes for the 600’s.
My 10k/marathon guys will only go as short or as fast as a mile race, so it’s their only all-out opportunity. if one of them cranks out a 4:30 mile, they shouldn’t go faster than 6:30/mile pace in their aerobic training miles.
Im thinking, No need to go crazy with these (unless your super slow). If one goes through 400 in 51s, then thats 12.75s average 100m. Running off some 2.1s 20s should be possible without going overboard (i can do 2.0 on grass) and really be working on technique. No need to make the session too hard or too many mtrs.
Also note, Sat is Mile runs, although hard, do hold a lot of O2 capabilities. And even if a touch Stiff after Thurs Overspeed, you should still be able to complete them.
Would you think that you could also use a HR monitor to judge this? ie, Keep under the anaerobic threshold. Some watches also come with a Foot Pod. So you can set alarms to keep within a Zone of pace, and also you can note your HR. Would be usefull for going through trails or such, where there are hills, (no point keeping up the pace if running up a hill). It would also be interesting to note the HR average during 75% pace effort. Also Nick, what sort of Athlete are your charges, sub 30 for 10k? 30-35 for 10k?, 36-40?
You can use a heart rate monitor, but you don’t just want to be below the lactate threshold during the 75% runs, you want to go some way below it. Lactate threshold could be reaching 90% of your max heart rate which probably means you’re fairly legging it. Heart rates reached during 75% and below efforts are much lower.
Unfortunately, Bold, my runners are no champions…35-36 min 10k.
It makes sense,thank you.
Don’t you think that 90 seconds repeats might work even better to build at least one side of their aerobic speed reserve,functional to whatever distance they may compete over,where significant contribution from the aerobic metabolism is required?
Just a thought.
I know that Renato Canova has mentioned 800 guys doing weekly 1 hour long runs and Joaquim Cruz talked Khadevis Robinson into doing 10 milers, but I think most of us here are sprinters, so we’re more likely to be 400/800 types than 800/1500/5000 types. There certainly are people like Mark Everett who didn’t do much of that kind of stuff, and people like William Tanui who didn’t do much of it. Also people like Maria Mutola: <50km per week, little aerobic running, LOTS of intervals. The event is about 60/40 aerobic, but you can get aerobic capacity from tempo and you can get it from intervals.
When I came here, I actually did pretty much what Charlie suggested, and it came to something like this:
Monday: MaxV: 6X60, full recovery or 4X30 flying
Tuesday: 3-4K Tempo
Wednesday: Split Runs: 7X100 @ 400 pace, 3X4X200 @ 800 pace, or 3X10X100 @ 800 pace
Thursday: 3-4K Tempo
Friday: SEII: 4X300, 3X400, 2X500, or 2X600 @ 800 pace
The tempo were mostly 20X200 like Coe ran, but run as tempo with short rest @70% speed, barefoot on beach.
This actually seemed to work pretty well for a 400/800 guy, but the “catch” was that I gained so much speed listening to Charlie, that I went down to being a 100m guy (which I really hadn’t been before). You don’t see too many 10.3-10.4 guys racing 800’s.
Nice workout. Any weights or med balls or anything else?
I gained so much speed listening to Charlie, that I went down to being a 100m guy (which I really hadn’t been before). You don’t see too many 10.3-10.4 guys racing 800’s.
Awsome. How did your times progress in the different events from following that type of program? Ballpark figure.
event, Amount of improvement
100
200
400
800
I am little new to 800m training, but I have a friend who might need couple of tips…
What is the difference in the goal of SEII and split runs? How much are the rest periods in the mentioned two components? Thanks in advance
Definitely.
I’m very keen on 90 sec intervals, especially hills, during the period before I emphasise flat speed. These are great for enhancing strength as well as Lactate threshold and VO2max.
