1: Yes
2: There is some moderation but the times generally progress as specific ability is put in place.
3: The plans actually begin to converge and that would be reflected if subsequent, short, SPPs occurred. The S-to-L you see here was set up as a single SPP due to the particular circumstance but would normally follow a substantial GPP and all 400 programs would normally have longer GPP lead-ins, IMO, which would leave somewhat less time in further SPP cycles.
I think you can evaluate all this best with a review of the lactate thread in the archives- that’s a gold mine.
When you say S-to-L hadn’t worked for that female 400m runner, what were the specific signs of same? Was it a failure to progress or had she actually regressed?
Much of this tends to be down to the mindset of the athlete. I had a very good male 400m hurdler who would have done well with a S-to-L approach which would likely have been similar to what Adam Kunkel HAD been doing. The problem was that when I got him he was so used to pounding out 600’s that he got nervous when they were taken out of the program. He eventually left for another coach who would work him harder. He regressed, never breaking 50.00 again until he returned midway through 2000. He toyed with a comeback in 2004 and was committed to building from the speed end. In the end her knew that her was done and never followed through.
On the other hand, as I outlined earlier in the thread, I had female sprinter who was benefitting from the L-to-S plan except that she had been developed on a pure power/speed program. Things were going well, but she didn’t believe in what we were doing and nothing could change her mind.
I don’t know all the details but I would think it was specific physical adaptation rather than a belief issue because the others in that group had thrived on S-to-L at that time. I think, though, if you look at both the approaches I’ve outlined, they are not nearly as severe as the type of pounding program you mention.
I would also mention a case I became involved in with a female 400mh. I had a number of discussions with the coach and wasn’t getting anywhere when I suggested that his program was impossibly hard.
When the girl moved here for school, I was asked to supervise technically, so, rather than argue fruitlessly, I simply discarded his plan and switched to a S-to-L plan and didn’t tell him since he wasn’t here to see it anyway. Her speed came up dramatically and she dropped 2 seconds in the 400h and made the Olympic team.
Only problem was, after not being told, the coach became more convinced than ever that he was right all along and he gained credibility because of her results.
Charlie - in a collegiate setting where you had 14 weeks to train before finals and winter break, would a set up like this work?
Very short GPP followed by Long-Short SPP. Then over Winter Break (5 weeks) GPP followed by a Short-Long SPP during indoor season? Your thoughts. Most of my kids are away from me during winter break and some are in cold climates.
US Collegiate programs tend to be on the brutal side. The 400m hurdler in question was, and still is a workaholic, so he would always try to do more. If the previous coach said 2x600m he would try to do 3 or 4. If the coach said no to increased volume he would run them below the assigned pace. The problem was that his running mechanics were crap. He trained with me briefly in 94-95 and all I did was try to clean up his sprinting and hurdling. The only endurance work was ExT like stuff. This made him nervous after a couple of months and he returned to his college coach and got slower. Going into 95-96 we had a very good “sit-down” and stuck with the program for the next two years. His dropped from 50.84 to 49.73, while working 40 hours a week. Make no mistake, he still trained hard, but most of it was ExT. He loved it because he felt like he was being challenged due to the high volumes. I also had a even more talented female 400m hurdler who left at the same time for the same reasons, but didn’t come back, working her way through 3 more coaches before fading away. My perception is that with her a L-to-S would have worked better as she was the same height as the male hurdler (5’10") and not as elastic or naturally fast.
This begs the question, other than climatic and facility questions, what other factors are involved in deciding which plan to embark on?
Q1. why is it reduced to 2 hi intensity days? could speed work not continue on the wed or even some speed endurance .i.e 120,150.
Q2. instead of power speed & strength endurance on sat could a 5-6x200m 2min rec at target come home pace be done instead, followed by a rest day (sun) for the first 7 weeks then return to extensive tempo week 8-12.
Q3. what exactly is the strength end?, running A drill for 60-100m?
Q4. what would the competition period look like? maybe 2 hi intensity days, day 1 -some blocks 30-50m, race modeling 200+200 , day 2 - race or special endurance(200-300)
hi charlie, can you please outline what are your recoveries and % intensities for your saturday strength endurance session in weeks 5-12 of s2l and for weeks 1-12 of l2s??
Thanks for the graphs!
I hope this falls under the no questions too stupid to ask catergory but…where are the 12 weeks presented in the graphs supposed to fall in an annual plan for a high school athlete?
Depending on your weather and your season length, this could be the workouts for the year. Following the first set or S-L adnd L-S, I would follow it close for about 6 weeks, then let the meets take up the rest of the workouts for the season with good results. I’m in cold weather state
what sort of / distance SE were you doing?
Mostly 120s and 150s
I understand that the strength endurance work on all these programs is running A’s but can you seriously tell me you have tried to doing these for 150m?? I mean that would take minutes and be extremely difficult even for the most well conditioned athlete…and if there are 2x150m in one session, are we just talking running high knees or are we talking the running A drill?? (one leg being lifted whilst the other stays straight, so we need to do one each leg to keep it balanced), so if we are doing 2x150m of running A’s in the session we are actually doing 4 reps over 150m…!!!
Running As basically are high knees.
Well I pretty much think it is impossible to do any high knee action for 150m. The best I have ever seen any athlete do is about 60m with me walking beside them and that was a mission.
That’s what you’re doing it for- to make sure it is possible!
We did it many times- and farther. This is tough stuff, but, hell, you’re preparing for the 400m and you better be fit. There is no point continuing the drill with poor form, so if you are deteriorating, stop and recover before trying again. Otherwise you’re just kidding yourself.
Thank you Charlie/Rubert.
Yes, they sure do. I know a girl who ran for a well known University in Texas. The coach made the girls team run so many 600s through the whole year it was sick.
As I was told from this girl the head coach does not believe in pure speed work and only uses SE2 type workouts as there meat and potatoes. As a matter or fact her old HS coach got into a small argument with the coach at the university because he said the university would see better performance if this girl would do some speed work but it never happened.
Anyhow, I remember being on the phone with this girl and she would be crying because practice was so hard but she had to put herself through it because she was on scholarship. She ran about a 53-55 sec 400.
I have been under a coach like this myself but not as bad as her. Anyhow, I’m now on Charlies program and ONE of the MANY things that is awesome about his design is that you feel fresh every time you step on the track for a workout and you WANT to give it your all instead of arming yourself up just to get through practice; there is a difference.
Did you ever do / consider using running A’s for the back up on split runs? Example week 11 of S-L instead of 200+200 doing 200 @ above race pace then 25 seconds running A’s?
Would this have merit? 
On the graphs does the distances in the beige coloured section refer to running A’s ?
yes it does