400m S-L questions

I assume that is all for GPP right - 5 weeks?

Yes I’m at elite track.

-I was planning to put in work over that distance later the int tempo reps would become SE reps since it is just a summer base program to help improve aerobic abilities before fall training, do you think that should still be apart of the program?

-Ill adjust the accells
-The 450 is meant to be at 80-85% 200m pace for the first 200m and then the rest of the rep will be slower coming through 400m around 57. Now that i have actually thought about it the rest does need to be increased. I’ll drop the last 450 and leave it optional.

Thanks for the help it is much appreciated!

yea a gpp of sort, its a summer program before gpp to prepare for training for the 400m the following season

Good luck! You might get away with the 501-150m stuff provided that you have the right training conditions later this year when you do them.

A-J, check italian sprint training threads to have some infos on mennea.

If you go to the new UK athletics coaching website you can download handouts from the 2009 National Conference here. These handouts include a presentation by Kevin Tyler (from page 341 in the pdf) called “Short to Long & Long to short”, including detailed weekly plans. Nearly seems a copy of Charlie’s work, even the graphs are in the familiar blue and yellow. Highly recommended.

thanks eroszag :slight_smile: lol

martijn thats a bloody big handout lol good effort i think from uka to have the site though hopefully will become a great resource, anyone downloaded the interview with j deacon, interesting stuff with his approach over the years for 400

I read somewhere that Kevin Tyler trained under Charlie and he acknowledged his coaching influence on his own coaching. This influence is clear in Tyler’s coaching plans (e.g. short-to-long; small circuit; 4x30 80 100 120 150 sprint session, etc). Interestingly he does at times place the maximum strength work after the high intensity SE sessions and even has tempo on the same day as the SE sessions as well (see page 357). Also looking at the annual plan (page 354) it appears as though he continues max strength work through the competition periods (though I may just be misinterpreting his graph) unloading only what he calls specific strength. Also on Page 353 he states that the competition period is 4-6 weeks yet in his graph he includes scheduled competitions from end-May to end-August (approx 14 weeks). Does this mean that he has his athletes “train through” early season meets and has Charlie not warned against this?

I ask because for someone who acknowledges the influence of Charlie on his coaching; some of his work appears to be a bit of a departure from the CFTS.


Maximum strength after SE sessions (on the same day) also occurs in Charlie’s program. I suppose you’re referring to the maximum strength session on day 2 of the long-to-short program after an intensive SE session on day 1? There is room for that because day 3 is not as CNS intensive and day one is more focused on speed endurance, instead of speed.

I wonder if the extensive tempo’s on day 1 are a separate session or not. I thought doing extensive work at the end of a workout is counterproductive (lowering testosterone etc.).

An interesting read, and some good questions posed. I’ll take a stab, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Charlie’s influence is obvious, but you have to keep in mind, this program was developed in the relatively harsh conditions of Alberta, and specifically for Tyler Christopher (or athletes of his caliber). In other interviews, Kevin has stated that Tyler could not handle the high volumes that other world class 400m sprinters did, so he filled his work out with other stuff. I think that is consistent with what he presented, i.e. the volumes don’t seem excessive IMHO.

As for competitions, some of Charlie’s material shows that a 400m runner may only need 4-5races to peak, (maybe less for Tyler?) which would allow training through the early competition period. Thoughts?

They train in Edmonton while Charlie is in Toronto - completely different weather conditions. There’s no way you are going outside to do tempo in -40 degrees C. Anyway 10x100m is basically a cool down. Tyler Christopher ran 44.3 - I guess it worked for him!

What about the maximum strength training during the competition period?

Maybe it is just maintenance work?

I would also assume so. Though with what Charlie states about the diminishing returns on freshness with the loss of strength that athletes see once their maintenance programme goes beyond 8 weeks, is it possible that max strength is still emphasied during the early part of the outdoor season in the low key meetings?

I don’t know about 8 weeks.

What do you mean? Have you been able to maintain strength levels for longer?

Does anyone still have a copy of the original graph set that Rupert uploaded in this thread? I’m really at a loss not being able to locate it, and the links are no longer active in the thread now that I’ve come back and found the thread. Is there any way someone can give me a hand here that may have it on file?

I do at home (out of town at present) so will upload in approx 36 hours assuming I figure out how to do that :slight_smile:

sorry for delay, hope this helps

direct link to image

Thanks John