You are correct, there is no way that girls of this age can do 8 x 200m in 28s. I will try to keep you guys updated as I go along as to the loads that the girls can actually tolerate and the training paces they can maintain. The program will be changed a bit in the coming days as I’m going to work in some ideas that Pindaman PM’d me. Thanks for your thoughts so far.
Special Speed Endurance 300m, 250m, 180m @ 95% with full recovery
The girls handled yesterday’s session very well. The tempo on Wednesday helped a lot. The target times were all roughly at 58sec 400m pace.
The times were as follows:
300m - Quickest 42.2s, slowest 43.8
250m - Quickest 33.8s, slowest 35.6
180m - Quickest 23.3s, slowest 25.4
After the session they all felt good with their legs being a bit tired. After the session we had a water recovery session. After this they all felt very good. They are off until Monday.
Great advice, I’ll keep it in mind. Thanks.
Something is up with the timing or the girls should have PRs much better than ~60 (you said best was 58.something hand). Those times for a workout without blocks (I assume) are very fast. Maybe I am way off base here, but if I looked at your workouts and the times people were running I would think of a PR no slower than 54 in comp. For a young girl 4x200 @ 28 w/ low rest is not going to be tempo (recovery based at least) unless they have ~22-23 as their 200m PRs or faster.
For the 8x200s they don’t go faster than that all year for the 8x200. They don’t do a CF style gpp-spp-precomp-comp so it is hard to say when exactly because you see it in their plan throughout the year. Clyde hart has said 4x200 would be in 24 (this is for a 45-46 400m runner).
To Atletiek: You say you are in the 2nd phase of your program. Was the 1rst phase the 11sep -28 Oct program you posted? If so was their a gpp before your first comp phase.
I looked at your sep-oct program and there is quite a bit of speed. That is fine because you were competing. But what was before that. My only concern (and I’m probably wrong because I dont know all the details of what you are doing) Is that with young girls there might be a wall that they are hitting. Usually in our program, (also 2 comp phases) we rest a bit after the indoor season, then go into an abbreviated 2nd gpp phase of about 3-4 weeks.
Also when getting into the next phase I look at what we have just done and kind of work off of that. Indoor training kindof bleeds into outdoor training. We never drastically change workouts. My guess is you can look at your last phase and work off of that. Perhaps if you posted not only your last phase’s schedule but also the times run and the rest during the wo’s, also competition times, experts like KK and Charlie can advise you.
Hi ya trk400,
Thanks for the comments, they are very good. The previous phase as posted was the rough program before I changed it a bit, with the help of Pindaman and others. I did not post the final one. In the previous comp phase the girls did sort of hit the wall, but not to bad. My focus was to develop better 200m speed, and it did work quite well. All my athletes are very new to 400m and had useless 200m times 29+ times in the beginning of the year. So yes the GPP and early comp phase focus was speed development. They all dropped their 200m times dramatically and subsequently their 400m times, one by 6 seconds, from 64 to 58.
Our season is really messed up, as we don’t compete indoor like in the States and Europe. We had an early season in October, with 11, yes 11, meets in 28 days. Then they do nothing until mid January when the season starts again until middle April. It’s kind of hard to plan for this as most of the kids are on holiday from the end of November until middle January, and most don’t live in my town, where the track is.
The plan I posted on here is also just the rough draft version. I’ll post the reworked version soon, taking all of the guys (and gals?) on the forums ideas into account. I would appreciate all of your comments on it please.
This is the reworked plan for my athletes who compete at 400m. They all high school athletes and are aged between 14-16. We have 20 weeks before the national junior champs. The plan is modeled on the CFTS’s 12 week blocks, meaning that we are in week 4 of the first 12.
NOTES:
The basic weekly setup looks like this:
M - Speed development + Weights
T - Special Endurance
W - Tempo
T - Speed Endurance + Weights
F - Lactic tolerance work
S - Tempo + weights
S - Rest
Strength work
The group is spilt into two groups, the first are the older girls who have started to work with barbells and do a few Olympic lifts, and they will be referred to as the Senior Group. And the other group will only be doing isometric work, they will be referred to as the Junior Group. Both groups also do core work and plyo work in every session. The senior groups’ weights work along the same lines as the volumes for the running.
Volumes
Week 4 40% of total volume
Week 5 88% of total volume
Week 6 100% of total volume
Week 7 75% of total volume
Week 8 75% of total volume
Week 9 63% of total volume
Week 10 40% of total volume
Week 11 40% of total volume
Week 12 15% of total volume
Total meters run without tempos
Week 4 1000m
Week 5 2220m
Week 6 2500m
Week 7 1850m
Week 8 1900m
Week 9 1600m
Week 10 960m
Week 11 950m
Week 12 340m
Please would you comment on the program? I would like to make further adjustments as I go along. Your comments truly are invaluable.
Mon 20 Nov
Speed Dev
5 x 10m block starts with 6 min rest
Weights
Seniors
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Clean and Jerk [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Squat [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Lunges [ST]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Barbell step-ups [ST]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Barbell bench press [ST]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Plank [CS]
2 x 2min Oblique plank [CS]
2 x 2min Supermans [CS]
2 x 24 Leg extensions [CS]
1 x 8 Box jump march [PL]
3 x 8 Jump & vertical medball throws [PL]
1 x 8 Popups from 20cm box [PL]
1 x 8 30cm-60cm Depth jump [PL]
[i]Juniors[/i]
3 x 8 Hamstring curls [IS]
3 x 8 Reverse throws over head [IS]
2 x 30sec Running arms [IS]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Plank [CS]
2 x 2min Oblique plank [CS]
2 x 24 Hamstring raises [CS]
2 x 24 Lowering & raising legs [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws with legs [CS]
1 x 8 Box jump march [PL]
1 x 8 Jumping onto a 60cm box [PL]
3 x 8 Split Jumps [PL]
1 x 8 30m Bounding [PL]
1 x 8 30cm-60cm Depth jump [PL]
IS – Isometrics
Pl – Plyometrics
ST – Strength
CS – Core Stability
PO – Power
Tue 21 Nov
Special End
2 x 300m in 42.6s with full recovery between sets.
[i][b]Water recovery session[/b][/i]
Wed 22 Nov
Tempo
2 x 5 x 100m in 20s with 30s rest between reps and 10min between sets
Thu 23 Nov
Speed End
2 x 60m in 7.6s with 8 min rest between reps
1 x 80m in 10.5s
Weights
Seniors
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Clean and Jerk [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Hang pulls [PO]
2 x 2min Dynamic legs + back [CS]
2 x 2min Lowering & raising legs [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws over head [CS]
1 x 8 German hurdle hops over 6 hurdles [PL]
3 x 8 Split jumps [PL]
1 x 8 30m Speed hopping [PL]
[i]Juniors[/i]
3 x 8 Reverse throws between legs [IS]
3 x 8 Medball step-ups [IS]
3 x 8 Medball lunges [IS]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Static legs + back [CS]
2 x 2min Supermans [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws over head [CS]
1 x 8 3 Bound + Jump [PL]
3 x 8 Jump + vertical medball throw [PL]
1 x 8 Hurdle hops for speed over 6 hurdles [PL]
1 x 8 30m Speed hopping [PL]
IS – Isometrics
Pl – Plyometrics
ST – Strength
CS – Core Stability
PO – Power
Fri 24 Nov
Lactate Tol.
1 x 300m in 43.7s, rest 30s, 150m in 22.4s.
Sat 25 Nov
Tempo
2 x 11 x 100m in 20s with 30s rest between reps and 10min between sets.
Weights
Seniors
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Snatch [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Squat [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Lunges [ST]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Barbell step-ups [ST]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Barbell bench press [ST]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Plank [CS]
2 x 2min Oblique plank [CS]
2 x 2min Static legs + back [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws with legs [CS]
1 x 8 3 Bounds + jump [PL]
3 x 8 Forward throw from squat position [PL]
1 x 8 30m Bounding [PL]
[i]Juniors[/i]
3 x 8 Push-ups with feet on a box [IS]
3 x 8 Double arm shot push from chest [IS]
3 x 8 Medball squats [IS]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Plank [CS]
2 x 2min Dynamic legs + back [CS]
2 x 2min Held straight legs [CS]
2 x 24 Leg extensions [CS]
3 x 8 Forward throw from squat position [PL]
1 x 8 Pop-ups from a 20cm box [PL]
1 x 8 60cm-60cm depth jump [PL]
Sun 26 Nov
Rest
OK I will take a feeble stab at this.
First let me see if I have the situation right.
First you had a season from sept11-oct28. For this you posted the program earlier. (The one I commented on) You worked on speed development,especially the 200 and had excellent results. My first question is did you have a gpp or precomp period before the sep 11 date-oct 28 stuff that you showed us?
2nd: Your next season begins in Jan and culminates in mid April with your major championships. Hopefully I have this correct.
3rd you say the kids are off now on holiday and you dont see them as much . but it is nov 18 and they seem to be in training,so i’m a little confused. I’m guessing by off you mean no competitions.
4th: So if you just had the completion of your first season ending Oct 28. and you are now in the 4th week of a new program. This means you went right into training virtually the next day. Your championships are not until the middle of April this means you will be working on an extremly speed oriented program from Sep-11 until mid april. That is 7 months, and I dont know what you did pre sep 11. I coach college kids My women run from 55 -61 and 400h from 59-62. I dont think we could handle this amount of speed work for 7 months especially with all the comps thrown in during Oct.
Now granted we are a strength /volume oriented program. So I probably see things a bit differently than most. But I think I would have thrown a rest period in after oct 28 and gone back to strength through hills and more grass tempo work before attacking speed wo’s again. Short speed out to 60 meters yes. Longer reps out to 300 probably not for awhile. (unless done much slower).
Dont put to much into what I say because you know your athletes better than me. You are a much better judge and you have gotten good results. Everyone has different circumstances. Weather,age,training age, training conditions,goals ,etc… What is their dedication level? How much is to much and how much is not enough. Coaching young women in itself can be tough. (PC police be dammned.) They are generally more emotional. Only you can read all these tea leaves and try and come up with the right decisions. good luck.
Perhaps this is what he means 
:
“It’s kind of hard to plan for this as most of the kids are on holiday from the end of November until middle January, and most don’t live in my town, where the track is.”
Yes we had a long GPP from June, which was mostly hills, weights, sled and tempos as well as a bit of cross country.
This is correct.
They are not off yet, most will leave in two weeks time.
We had one week off and the second week was at 10% of the maximum volume, the rest of it was tempo work and rest. I kept the program as it is as most of the athletes will only be doing parts of it. I don’t have the time to create individual programs for each one, taking into account everyone’s training situations in their holiday. Only one athlete will be completing the whole program as is, the rest will do only one or two of the non tempo units per week.
Ain’t that the truth.
Thanks for the comments.
Nikoluski, you are correct. They are physically not where I am. They live in diffrent towns and are all going home for the holidays. This really sucks, it means I have to drive to one town on a Monday to attend to the kids there, some come to me on a Tuesday, Wednesday they do their tempos on their own, Thursday I drive to another town, Friday they come to me and Saturday they do their tempos on their own. What really sucks is that my best athlete lives 1000km from where I am, she will be training on her own for a month and a half, which is a bit scary as she’s only 14. I guess there is going to few phonecalls to check on her health for the next couple of weeks.
It rained yesterday so the session was not as good as I hoped. They did 5 x 10m block starts with 6 min rest. We did not do any weights.
They had quite a hard session today. They did: 2 x 300m in 42.6s with full recovery between sets.
Some could do them both in 42 and some just over. They all looked much better than in previous weeks. I believe this volume and pace is closer to what they can do. They all recovered much quicker and nobody looked like they wanted to die. 
A nice and relaxed tempo today, the girls did 2 x 5 x 100m in 20s with 30s rest between reps and 10min between sets.
Today they did:
2 x 60m in 7.6s with 8 min rest between reps
1 x 80m in 10.5s
They could all easily run this, they recovered well after yesterday’s work.
They also did:
Seniors
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Clean and Jerk [PO]
2 x 4 @ 45% of 1RM Hang pulls [PO]
2 x 2min Dynamic legs + back [CS]
2 x 2min Lowering & raising legs [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws over head [CS]
1 x 8 German hurdle hops over 6 hurdles [PL]
3 x 8 Split jumps [PL]
1 x 8 30m Speed hopping [PL]
Juniors
3 x 8 Reverse throws between legs [IS]
3 x 8 Medball step-ups [IS]
3 x 8 Medball lunges [IS]
2 x 24 Crunches with 10kg weight [CS]
2 x 24 Oblique crunches [CS]
2 x 2min Static legs + back [CS]
2 x 2min Supermans [CS]
1 x 24 Medball throws over head [CS]
1 x 8 3 Bound + Jump [PL]
3 x 8 Jump + vertical medball throw [PL]
1 x 8 Hurdle hops for speed over 6 hurdles [PL]
1 x 8 30m Speed hopping [PL]
IS – Isometrics
Pl – Plyometrics
ST – Strength
CS – Core Stability
All of them complained of their abs being a bit stiff but none serious.