20 rep sqauts

[David_W]

Concise as ever Rob

[scarface]

@rob_ryder

i would never use stagnation as an excuse to do the high rep garbage. But you are correct, at times a lack of progress will cause me to alter things in my training. These are likely to be exercises, rep speed, training frequency etc. I do change reps however, but it’s not a dramatic change like doing 20 rep squats or anything like that. I may go from doing 10 sets x 1 rep at 95%, to 5 sets x 2 reps at 90% or even 3 sets x 5 reps at 82.5%, etc.
My motto is “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

So what is it you are trying to tell us? Because Rob Ryder deems "high reps garbage,” then high reps are useless?

[rob_ryder]

@scarface

So what is it you are trying to tell us? Because Rob Ryder deems "high reps garbage,” then high reps are useless?

No i’m not that arrogant! I’m just trying to point out that sprinters have quite specific needs and they are best met with low reps, not high reps. I think that by using high reps instead of low reps you would be moving away from that which would serve your needs best as a sprinter, because fatigue and strength are mutually exclusive. Arkady Vorobyev, leading Russian sports scientist and former world weightlifting champion, found that performing more than 6 reps per set hinders strength develpoment. So you can see it’s not because Rob Ryder deems high reps to be useless.

[Charlie_Francis]

rob ryder:
I cleaned up your last post full of steroid speculation. I’ll refer you to the site policy about drugs you agreed to when you signed up. Please don’t use this line of arguement to support your training ideas- it doesn’t hold water anyway. Also please think in terms of load when making statements about “rep numbers”. This can get pretty tricky. What, for instance, can we say about a sprint over 100m for instance? Is it a set of 45 reps? What about free exercises? You lumped depletion push-ups in with HIT training. No one is a harsher critic of HIT training than me (and the results speak for themselves), but they are NOT the same thing. In fact, rather than overloading the CNS, as you suggest, push-up depletions work the muscles very hard while creating relatively little stress to the CNS.
I do agree with you regarding program change. Don’t fix what ain’t broke and always try the recovery avenue first, when you hit a plateau, to see if that will fix the problem before instituting any changes.

[scarface]

@rob_ryder

No i’m not that arrogant! I’m just trying to point out that sprinters have quite specific needs and they are best met with low reps, not high reps. I think that by using high reps instead of low reps you would be moving away from that which would serve your needs best as a sprinter, because fatigue and strength are mutually exclusive. Arkady Vorobyev, leading Russian sports scientist and former world weightlifting champion, found that performing more than 6 reps per set hinders strength develpoment. So you can see it’s not because Rob Ryder deems high reps to be useless.

Fair enough!

Yes, sprinting does have specific needs, which include strength, speed, power, endurance, and any combination thereof. The goal is to train to develop ALL areas including endurance -both speed and strength endurance. Granted endurance quality should be trained on the track…but it can also be trained in the gym. Sure, excessive endurance work hinders strength and speed. Nevertheless, endurance work is a reality for any event above 60m.

I think the idea should be to discuss the Pro’s and Con’s of ALL methods, and leave it up to the reader to decide what is best.

Btw, thanks for your response.

PS. Good post Charlie…Informative!

[chris30]

Scarface and Charlie,

How would you fit the depletion type routines in your training? What type of workout and phase would they be best suited? Would they be used intermittently or regularly?

I am guessing you wouldn’t do them after a speed workout but maybe in the strength endurance workout ie: circuits, intervals, hill training in GPP and to a lesser extent SPP?

thanks again,
Chris

[rob_ryder]

@Charlie_Francis

rob ryder:
I cleaned up your last post full of steroid speculation. I’ll refer you to the site policy about drugs you agreed to when you signed up. Please don’t use this line of arguement to support your training ideas- it doesn’t hold water anyway. Also please think in terms of load when making statements about “rep numbers”. This can get pretty tricky. What, for instance, can we say about a sprint over 100m for instance? Is it a set of 45 reps? What about free exercises? You lumped depletion push-ups in with HIT training. No one is a harsher critic of HIT training than me (and the results speak for themselves), but they are NOT the same thing. In fact, rather than overloading the CNS, as you suggest, push-up depletions work the muscles very hard while creating relatively little stress to the CNS.
I do agree with you regarding program change. Don’t fix what ain’t broke and always try the recovery avenue first, when you hit a plateau, to see if that will fix the problem before instituting any changes.

Thanks for your response Charlie! I probably didn’t read the site policy when i signed up, in my haste to get onto the forum. As such i was unaware that i was infringing upon the rules. For this i apoligise and i will make sure that my future posts are devoid of any drug speculation and other such infringements.
I agree that a sprint is really a series of reps, but one wouldn’t be performing these with the idea that they were getting stronger. My point was that the weights should be used to improve strength to bodyweight ratios and explosive power, and as such the reps should be kept low for this purpose. The track is where one can’t avoid but to perform ‘high reps’ because it is the reality of the sport, but at this point we wouldn’t be looking to develop the same attributes that i believe the weights are best for. We would be looking to increase RFD and sprint endurance and that kind of thing.
I lumped depletion push ups and HIT training etc together not because of how they affect the CNS (because i am clueless about how depletion push ups would affect this), although i am well aware of how HIT taxes the CNS, but because i am against any kind of training that causes excessive muscle soreness. To be fair and honest i do not know what depletion push ups actually are, but in the context that they were first brought up and based on a logical interpretation of the word depletion, it followed from my understanding of training that strength and power could not possibly be built in any kind of ‘depleted’ state (you yourself say that depletion push ups work the muscles very hard although not the CNS, so i assume there is quite a bit of muscle soreness that comes from them?). I should have investigated depletion push ups before posting, rather than interpreting/guessing what they probably were. I’ll try not to be as flippant in the future. Thanks!

[rob_ryder]

@scarface

Fair enough!

Yes, sprinting does have specific needs, which include strength, speed, power, endurance, and any combination thereof. The goal is to train to develop ALL areas including endurance -both speed and strength endurance. Granted endurance quality should be trained on the track…but it can also be trained in the gym. Sure, excessive endurance work hinders strength and speed. Nevertheless, endurance work is a reality for any event above 60m.

I think the idea should be to discuss the Pro’s and Con’s of ALL methods, and leave it up to the reader to decide what is best.

Btw, thanks for your response.

PS. Good post Charlie…Informative!

I agree with you. It is best to leave it up to the reader to decide what is best for their own circumstances after assimilating the discussions on the board. Thanks also for your post.

[pete]

Rob,
I do a variety of pushup schemes that eventually end in failure, but the depletion pushups model that Charlie gave us was: pushups to failure, 90s, pushups to failure, 90s, pushups to failure.
I’d like to note that after doing a lot of these I experience at most the slightest hint of soreness the day after.

Chris,
They shouldn’t come the day before a speed day. Besides that, as long as you haven’t really been loading up on chest exercises for the last day or two they could fit.

Ex. in SPP:

M-CNS
T-tempo
W-CNS
Th-tempo and depletion pushups
F-OFF
S-CNS
Su-tempo

Charlie said in the forum review or tapes that strength endurance work could last for 20 weeks.

[Charlie_Francis]

Re Depletion push-ups. They are as described and we would do them on Sat (last training day w Sun off), usually throughout the accum phase.
Re Strength End (running As over distances out to 120m and beyond at a walking pace forward); These drills varied in distance and number so staleness or a plateau were avoided.

[AussieBrad]

Charlie I am interested in the running a’s for strength endurance, could you give a quick run down of when and how you would inlcude them into a program based on your training system?

Also, this may be a silly question, but are running a’s done quickly (ie legs pumping fast) or more relaxed?

thanks

[Kweli]

Well I guys I have been doing a leg press exercise in my weight program. I have been doing 3x10 leg presses (straight out) SO I am not building no strength when I’m doing this?

I think I am because when i run at practice my legs feel stronger and i’m catching the 400m guys in practice…

[prophet]

But you’re a 100/200 guy right? So you should be blowing away the 400 guys!

[rob_ryder]

@David_W

Concise as ever Rob

I try my best! !

[Kweli]

So your saying…Just because I’m a 100m 200m sprinter, I can’t be beating the 400m sprinters on my TRACK TEAM?

that’s pretty dumb!

[prophet]

@Kweli

So your saying…Just because I’m a 100m 200m sprinter, I can’t be beating the 400m sprinters on my TRACK TEAM?

that’s pretty dumb!

I’m saying that b/c you’re a 100/200 guy you should be blowin away the 400 guys! You said that the high rep leg presses you were doing were helping with you’re strength b/c you were catching the 400 guys in practice. Being a 100/200 guy they should be left behind from the start and they should be the 1’s trying to catch you!

[Charlie_Francis]

@AussieBrad

Charlie I am interested in the running a’s for strength endurance, could you give a quick run down of when and how you would inlcude them into a program based on your training system?

Also, this may be a silly question, but are running a’s done quickly (ie legs pumping fast) or more relaxed?

thanks

When doing running As, you must allow full extention to take place. Trying for speed is likely to cause form to break down. Strength End is usually done once a week- we did it on Sat

[prophet]

@Charlie_Francis

When doing running As, you must allow full extention to take place. Trying for speed is likely to cause form to break down. Strength End is usually done once a week- we did it on Sat

Charlie, did u do these during GPP or did they extend to SPP as well?

[AussieBrad]

Charlie, thanks for that,

in your book you refer to moving onto the next component if an athlete’s form starts to degrade.

Is this one of the drills that can be used if an athlete is not upto speed work on any given day (whether you work it out at the start of training or during)?

Are there any other ones that can be used or do you just send your athlete off to finish some plyos or strength work (though I guess for a CNS drained guy either is not the best…).

thanks again.

[y400]

So I have a question…I read some remarks about gaining endurance. What do you guys think for recovery, instead of tempo, doing 25-30 min runs three times a week? This is for all guys 100-400.