“Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You’ll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you’ll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back on your shower shoes and the press will think you’re colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, it means you’re a slob.” – Crash Davis, Bull Durham
This quote from the movie Bull Durham summarizes my feelings on athletes and how they handle their training and nutrition. There are millions of athletes who make a big stink about how badly they want an athletic scholarship or how they dream of becoming a professional athlete. And all of them talk about how hard they are willing to work to get there. But when it comes to actually doing what it takes to get there, the number of athletes doing the work necessary to reach their “dream” is somewhere between slim and none. And until an athlete realizes their potential and makes that dream a reality everything that he or she does that prevents them from realizing that dream just makes them a slob.
Luckily volleyball is a game of repetition - most of the movements can be learned off. The diving is ok, once you’ve hurt yourself a couple of times you listen to EXACTLY what you’re being told
There’s probably very little I can tell you that you won’t know already. If there’s anything you want a chat about, I’ll do my best.
I think it would better fit the description of a game of “chaos”. You never know where the ball is going, which way the opposition is going to move, etc. Rowing and swimming and track are sports of repetition. In a sport ruled by chaos you have to prepare for every possible situation.
1 - From a technique point of view, none of the actions are especially natural. Most are learned off.
2 - From a gameplay point of view, there are specific attack and defence patterns. I guess it’s a little like american football - you have a setter (QB) with a number of options to attack through (receivers). Just about choosing a defence strategy that works against the opposition.
I always appreciate help. Hope you will be paying attention to the thread and if you see anything you can help with, please do so (that goes for everybody).
What’s your experience on teaching the approach? Our coaches teach a right-left-right or left-right-left that just seems so artificial. I’m actually planning on doing some work on developing approach jump technique with a model that follows Charlie’s sprint philosophies. I try to avoid super-technical sport work, but in this case I’ve actually seen some of my girls get set back a year or two by being too rehearsed and not reactive/explosive enough.
Supergirl has been dealing with some back issues. A long summer really broke her down and I’m pissed because there’s only so much work I can do to help avoid problems. The best part is she finally understands stress (from volleyball, work, training, etc., etc.) so that will help more in the long run. I was pissed at her yesterday and told her, “I’m bored with all this sh#t.” I understand completely why what is happening (back pain) is happening, but there’s only so much I can do. She got my point. Just structural work with no leg strength/power work. Will probably be the same next week but it’s wait and see.
So, in the meantime I’m going to post some pics next week (I hope) of one of my younger volleyball players (15 going on 16) performing front squats (workouts lately have been like this: 1 x 6/95, 1 x 5/115, 1 x 3-5/125, 2-4 x 3-5/135; this is maintenance work, we don’t move on to the 135 sets if the reps aren’t clean at 125). If I can figure out how to do that here, I’m also going to try and post some short videos of jump performance and other training that we incorporate, also. This specific youngster was just profiled (faces of the future) in volleyball magazine. I have a division-I outside hitter who swears that my 15 year old is 2 years more advanced than she was at the same age. Her current jump stats are 22" vertical (9’2"), 25" approach jump (9’5"). SCARY STUFF FOR THE FUTURE!! If I get the chance I’m also going to try and do a technical session on my power cleans in the next couple of weeks (probably 3). If I do the session at Velocity, I’m going to have them film it and I’ll try and post that as well. If I can find my vid from winter/spring it’ll hopefully show my progress. I’ve been much more explosive lately. I can dunk with practically no warm-up and the other day I jumped onto our bleachers that tuck away (they’re about 5 feet in height, but I was not paying attention to my hip height so there’s no telling what my actual jump was; not that that really matters, it was just for fun). My training is going pretty well but I’m not as far as I hoped to be (the summer really put a wrench into my training). My goals for the year were 405-pound front squat and a 300-pound power clean. I’d say I’m 85% of the way to my goal on the power clean and 75-80% of the way on the front squat. If I get motivated, I think I can make it by December-January. But this thread isn’t supposed to be about me. I’m out!!
I think that the approach has to be coached - because of the specifics of the armswing, it’s not a natural movement; your arms move together whilst the legs move individually. To try and let people do it naturally wouldn’t work if you want my opinion.
I also think that the repetitive side of things helps with consistency - you’ll always know how far you need to be from the net to hit. So in the middle of a point you’re not wondering about it - it’s programmed, you pick up where you are from the rest of the court and you execute the motion.
You have to get them to the stage where the technique is second nature. As I’m sure you’ll know it’s much, much more difficult to correct incorrect skill than to learn it in the first place. Then when they get comfortable with it, emphasise upon them how to really ramp it up and be as explosive as possible.
It’s one of the most technical movements of the whole game. And there are lots of areas that bad habits can creep in. Vital that this is done properly.
I agree. This really needs to be coached well and formally. As you said, there are a lot of bad habits (some that can lead to shoulder problems due to poor posture) that can creep into it. Once they have learned it, they will be able to modify it for when they need it with little work.
1-1 Step to Jump [Left, Right for Right-Handed Athlete]
**This is tricky because I look at this as stepping with the left and the right foot follows. I believe a step is a step forward in direction, not stepping into balance. Does this make sense?
2-2 Step to Jump [Right, Left, Right for Right-Handed Athlete]
So technically the first progression jump would be (by traditional terminology) a 2-step jump and the 2nd would be a 3-step. But do you guys understand what I’m saying about the balance step not counting as a step forward?
Honestly - I think you’re breaking it down too much. Bearing in mind that the footwork is only a part of it you’re going to end up with too many sections.
The way I was taught was simply a three step approach staying on the ground initially: {I’m right handed}
start with R foot forward then
step with L, swing both arms forward
step with R, swing both arms back
bring L to meet R, swing both arms overhead
[I found it difficult initially to get my arms swinging forward with the first step. Felt entirely unnatural.]
Then gradually speed it up and incorporate a jump at the end. Then emphasise a forceful final drive with the arms into the jump.
Depending on the way you’re teaching it, you may include a little bit of a rotation into the jump. And pointing the feet together at the final planting of the feet. More going on here than you’d think.
I think i understand what you are getting at. It is the “plant” step. The progression looks good. It is essentually what my coach had me do.
As an aside, One thing that cannot be emphasized enough is the after the landing portion. Upon landing, (with proper mechanics of course), the player needs be ready for their spike to be blocked/hit the net/or the ball returned over (defensive position). This is especially important for backrow hitters. This won’t work on a hard block versus a hard spike, but it never is a bad idea to emphasize getting back into a defensive mode.
Perhaps I overstated “approach”. I’m really just worried about the legs. Putting it together would be for the coaches. I’m presenting this as a jump progression based off of the approach. Too many standing in place exercises for jumping when the jump is tied into movement more. Jumping is a part of the whole and not the whole. Does my progression make more sense now or do you think it’s still broken down too much? I don’t want to get into arm action too much because I’m hoping the coaches are taking care of that specific component. I just see too many girls so worried about the swing of the arms that they never learn to actually push/project/drive off the ground.
Yes, the “plant” step. The terminology may vary but it’s the effect of a plant step and not a full step that I want. Establish balance and drive off the ground.
I’m starting to get the feeling that doing work on any part of the approach isn’t a good idea. You will know how technical a movement it is. Maybe it’s best to wait until the movement is learned off and is second nature.
I appreciate the point about not being explosive and worrying about form. But maybe concentrate on that when the form is well established.
Any work that you are doing that increases jump is good, so long as you appreciate the two different styles of jump needed - blocking (almost a standing jump, unless they are swing blockers) and the approach jump. The standing in place exercises are going to be important. Don’t concentrate solely on the jump portion of the approach.
Presumably you’re also doing VMO and shoulder prehab stuff? Core stability and rotation are also important. General mobility and agility, and the ability to recover quickly (rather than endurance) are all key. A problem that may not always be apparent is the drop in jump as a game progresses. It’s an important issue to look at.
Apologies if this is repeating the things you already do. Just trying to think of the things I would be concerned with when coaching.
Yeah, not concerned with most of that stuff. I think this brings up a fundamental difference in philosophy. I believe in keeping rhythm and style and filling in the technical gaps as the motor qualities come together (as I said, charlie’s philosophies on sprinting applied to volleyball). I believe in brining them as close to natural movement as possible and improving the technique as it becomes necessary to do so. So, true to form, on the jump progression (or on any progression I lay out) I focus on one element at a time and progress from there (to avoid paralysis by analysis).
Nothing wrong with either philosophy. I just think some jump exercises (like a lot of weightlfting/resistance training exercises) are wasted energy because they don’t approach the dynamics of volleyball on a general or specific level (in terms of intensity either on the relative intensity scale or along the force-velocity curve). In short, I believe that a lot of the exercises currently performed in volleyball (or any sport) programs is inefficient. As Charlie says, improve or go home. Too much jumping for the sake of jumping, or lifting for the sake of lifting.
Yeah, not concerned with most of that stuff. I think this brings up a fundamental difference in philosophy. I believe in keeping rhythm and style and filling in the technical gaps as the motor qualities come together (as I said, charlie’s philosophies on sprinting applied to volleyball).
If that is the case, and I mean this with all respect, then maybe you’re in the wrong game. Volleyball movements are not close to natural movements. There’s no such thing as a natural volleyball style. To be unconcerned with such technical issues is a mistake.
Volleyball is a game which is almost robotic. Flair and style is not something easily expressed. Look at olympic level players. They have simple, consistent and correct technique.
Letting someone pick up the actions as they train with an adjustment here and there? Won’t work. Absolutely won’t work.
Are you familiar with charlie’s philosophies on training at all? Again, I’m not a volleyball coach so when I say technical I mean physical-technical not volleyball technical. As a matter of fact, I think you would do a fantastic job of putting together volleyball-wise what I’ve done training-wise. The qualities I’m discussing improvement on are physical qualities that assist the technical so yes I do believe in filling in the gaps. Have you read Speed Trap or the CFTS? As I stated earlier, I’m applying these philosophies to a volleyball preparation model. I think we’re going in the wrong direction and ultimately I don’t like the direction of your most recent posts. I thought this was about contribution, not criticism. It won’t work? It’s been working and I was hoping that you could help provide your insight but I think your rationale is not, well, rational.
So we don’t go on the wrong track and end up hating each other, let me try to explain again: Let’s say a female hits a ceiling (around 15, 16, or 17) on her playing performance. Now, let’s assume her stats are these: 5’10", 7’8" reach, 9’0" vertical (16"), 9’2" approach (18"). If her limitation was a physical one (with this jump ability, it’s a big limitation; this is where I come in), everything she’s going to do that does not involve improving her jump performance and her power as a whole (or whatever her weakest link is) is spinning her wheels. It was the same thing with Angela Issajenko’s (?)stride length in her early development. Everyone else told charlie, fix her stride, it’s messed up. Charlie said, when her strength improves her stride will work itself out. Same thing with Ben Johnson’s start. Fix his start, that’s weird. Years down the road these coaches are trying to have their athletes duplicate ben’s start with no success.
Further, I don’t think volleyball is robotic. But perhaps that’s just different terminology between us. Automated, yes. Reflexive, yes. Robotic (domo aregato, mr roboto), no.
Yes, I know I’m challenging volleyball tradition (and traditional training dogma). I hear the same thing from volleyball coaches everyday, but the truth is you can’t argue with success.
You seem like an intelligent coach so I believe that this is where the disagreement should end. I would say perhaps we should talk but I see that you’re in the UK and I’m not interested in paying a $200 dollar phone bill (unless, you don’t mind! ). Perhaps we could continue our discussion via PM (maybe e-mail?), but I’m not interested in having it continue on the thread. It feels too personal and showy. The thread is supposed to be about the training I’m having an advanced female perform in preparation for division-I college volleyball. I also started it because some members here had expressed interest in seeing a more complete training model in a previous thread on volleyball (http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11471&highlight=Volleyball+Training). Again, I don’t mean any disrespect I would just prefer to get this thread back on track. And I would like to stop saying, “I don’t mean any disrespect.” when it seems like we are actually disrespecting each other.
I’ll end my side of the discussion with this quote from charlie, “we train today the way others will train tomorrow.”
That’s fine - PM is good. We might be arguing slightly different points; I’m coming from a volleyball-technical approach which isn’t the direction you’re coming from, and I don’t have an absolute understanding of how much technical work your girls get. I’m working through CFTS. Perhaps I’ll have a fuller appreciation of your posts when I’ve completed it.
I’m not posting to criticise. I’m just trying to be honest from my experiences. As I mentioned - if I’m slightly off track with what your role is in the scenario then I apologise. I’ve always gone with the idea of technical coaches worked SOLELY on technique, S&C coaches did ZERO technical work, hence my surprise at your posts on issues with the girls’ approach.
Finally, I wouldn’t take things so personally - a bit of discussion is good and if everyone agreed all the time wouldn’t things be terribly boring?
