The company that you bought the machine from should have provided an emg machine. Ask them about their emg consoles they should have told you about this if they know what they are doing. Query them about the fact that their machine is capable of kicking out frequencies below 20hz.
Huh? They should have provided an EMG for use or they should have been kicked in an EMG unit in on the deal? Do other vibration companies provide EMG units…like Powerplates. I will contact them and give you the feedback. thanks.
The original Bosco Nemes had EMG feedback built into the models (though you could choose to buy a cheaper version without feedback. As far as I know powerplate are a cheap rip off of his machines.
Nemes website: http://www.nemesis-europe.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=37
Ok, good info…I have a feeling the data I’m collecting on this site is superior to what the salesman or technician will know from Pnuemex. I’m looking for an affordable EMG machine that does not use needles…something similiar to what Nemes has now…since I doubt Pnuemex has anything like this. I am concerned that maybe I am doing more harm than good. I have noticed the machine “does” increase ROM, whether it increases bone density will be hard to determine. Even if I use the machine to increase greater flexibility, I’m sure based on what I’ve gathered here, that there is optimum vibration levels that should be used? Another words, I could be improving ROM but creating havoc on internal organs if hz level is wrong?
So long as it isn’t below 20Hz you are farily safe. There are other factors that matter as well - see nemes site but something basic to measure EMG will give you a good understanding of what works. ROM increases with local vibration anyway so i think the emg is just really useful for full body vibration.
An EMG machine is not too dissimilar from an ems set-up the only difference is that it reads the electrical signal rather than inputs voltage to the muscle. There are no needles involved, you have electrodes with a negative positive and ground line attached. As muscle is activated electrical signals on the scale of milli volts are read by the machine. The visual output can be as simple as an LED set-up or a more sophisticated computer or in-built LCD screen. If for instance a 20HZ regimen is not optimal in comparison to a 30hz setting then the EMG reading will be lower. This will tell you what frequency is the most effective for you as an individual. Your machine should also have a test mode where it runs right through the frqeuncies. To find out which mode that is. Its the one that feels as if the damn machine is about to orbit. As you stand on the machine in the test mode you should not move because if you do then the EMG is soo sensitive that you may get a mis-reading. To counter that, just go through the test mode three to four times and the range frequency that stimulates the muscle mst on each test is your optimum.
EMG feedback is really clever. I wonder how the emg rates change with frequency though…
I spoke with the owner of pnuemex, (or at least that is what they said on the phone). They do no provide an EMG console or anything like that. According to their data, they recommend that sprinters or athletes with faster twitching muscle tendencies should start out at 28hz. They work in cycles of 3 weeks with a total of 9 before they stop using it. Normally they ramp the speed up with each progressive cyle. I was provided a name of a coach who has been using this protocol for the last 5 years. I plan on calling this guy to find out what kind of data he has collected. (I’ll post my findings if I think it would be relevent)The owner stated he has been in collaboration with Bosco. (spoke with him 2 weeks ago)
I have found a portable EMG unit that is affordable. Anyone have thoughts on this particular model? Will it provide the info I need?
http://lifematters.com/myotrac_emg.asp
Did he use an Ouija board? Bosco is dead.
LOL, this will be good, I will call him back and to get greater input of their conversation.
You need an emg that gives you atleast numerical readings. This machine does not give you that facility.
Thanks, In that case, it appears it will be a challenge to find anything under 5 grand. (used)
I spoke with a couple of testimonial guys listed on the Pnuemex web site:
http://www.pneumex.com/pdf/Vibe/You%20Won’t%20Believe%20These%20Results.pdf
they are using high speed treadmills along with the vibration. Speaking with them on the phone, they seem very credible and sincere. I haven’t swallowed everything hook line and sinker, but they do have my attention.
What was the justication for using high speed treadmills with the platform?
You maybe able to purchase a cheap emg unit from nemesis bv.
I checked out Nemes, but the product description is not translating into english. Regarding why the use of high speed treadmills? I can’t answer that. I’ve talked to a couple of guys who said they are getting amazing speed improvement results. Is this due to any of their products? Are they telling the truth? I don’t know.
APOLOGIES GUYS, THIS IS A BOSCO PAPER, AT LEAST THE RESULTS AND DISCUSSION ETC. BUT SOME SYMBOLS/WORDS APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN UNRECOGNISABLE IN TRANSLOCATION TO THE FORUM. NEVERTHELESS, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING USEFUL IN THIS…kk
Results
Mechanical behaviour
Before VT, the mechanical behaviour of both E and C
demonstrated no statistically signi®cant di€erences in P
calculated during elbow ¯exion with the extra load of
5% of mb. After VT the arms of the E group showed a
statistically signi®cant improvement (pre vs post) for the
P (P < 0.001, Fig. 2). In contrast, the mechanical be-
haviour of the arms in C group, showed no changes in P
when the pre-post test analysis was performed (Fig. 2).
Fig. 1 Test apparatus and subject’s place-
ment during the experiment
Fig. 2 Average mechanical power (ordinate) recorded during arm
¯exion of the treatment (E) and control © armbefore (Pre) and after
the treatment period (Post). Asterisk denotes statistically signi®cant
di€erences (P < 0.001) between the test performed before and after
the treatment period
308
Neuromuscular characteristics
The EMGrms detected in the biceps brachii muscles of E
and C demonstrated no statistically signi®cant di€eren-
ces in the pre-post test analysis. At the same time no
di€erences were noted between the two treatment groups
before and after VT. On the other hand, the EMG: P
ratio demonstrated in the E group a statistically signi-
®cant decrement (P > 0.01) after VT (Fig. 3). In the C
group, the EMG: P ratio after VT decreased, but sta-
tistical signi®cance was not reached (Fig. 3). The
EMGrms collected from the biceps brachii muscles of E
group before and during the VT, showed a signi®cant
enhancement during VT. The EMGrms collected sepa-
rately during each minute of VT are given as a per-
centage of the EMG found during rest recorded just
before VT (Fig. 4). Statistically signi®cant enhancement
was observed when the EMG activity recorded during
VT was compared to pre-vibration values (P < 0.001,
Student’s t- test, paired values), for all 5 min monitored.
However, the analysis of variance employed to detect
di€erences among means of the EMG collected during
the experimental 5 separated min, showed no statistical
di€erences.
Discussion
As expected the pre compared to the post test analysis
performed for the C group demonstrated no changes in
the elbow ¯exor muscle P. These are not novel obser-
vations, since using a similar dynamometer Bosco et al.
(1995) have found no changes, during a test re-test
protocol, in the muscle P of athletes who throw. In
contrast, in the present study, a signi®cant increase in P
was noted in the elbow ¯exor muscles, following 5 min
of VT (Fig. 2). Facilitation of the excitability of the
spinal re¯ex has been elicited through vibration given to
the quadriceps muscle (Burke et al. 1996). The possi-
bility that vibration may elicit excitatory in¯ow through
muscle spindle-a-motoneuron connections in the overall
motoneuron in¯ow has been suggested also by Lebedev
and Peliakov (1991). It has been demonstrated that vi-
bration drives a-motoneurons via a Ia neuron loop
producing force without descending motor drive
(Rothmuller and Cafarelli 1995).
Even if, as has been suggested, the vibration re¯ex,
like the tendon jerk re¯ex, operates predominantly or
exclusively via a-motoneurons and does not use the
same cortically originating e€erent pathways, as has
been shown to be the case when performing voluntary
contractions (Burke et al. 1976), the possibility that VT
can alter voluntary movement cannot be excluded.
These suggestions are supported by the present ®ndings.
In fact the EMG recorded in the biceps brachii muscles
of E showed a signi®cant enhancement (P < 0.001) of
the neural activity during VT (Fig. 4), compared to
normal.
It has been shown that vibration induced activation of
muscle spindle receptors, not only in the muscle to which
the vibration was applied, but also in the neighbouring
muscles (Kasai et al. 1992). Mechanical vibration (10±
200 Hz), applied to muscle belly or tendon, has been
shown to elicit re¯ex contraction (Hagbarth and Eklund
1965 ). This response has been named ``tonic vibration
re¯ex’’ (TVR). It is not known whether it can be elicited
by low vibration treatment (30 Hz), even though it has
been suggested to occur during whole body vibration at
frequencies ranging from 1 to 30 Hz ( Seidel 1988).
In the present study the in¯uence of skin mech-
anoceptors, which would have activated some muscle
receptors, has also been considered. This phenomenon
would have been due to the fact that the vibrating
dumbell was gripped with the hand and at the frequency
used in the experiment (30 Hz) the Meissner corpuscles
located in the hand could possibly have triggered muscle
spindle activation as has been indicated elsewhere
(Hollins and Roy 1996). Previous ®ndings have also
Fig. 3 Electromyogram/average power (asordinate) recorded during
arm ¯exion of the treatment (E) and control © armbefore (Pre) and
after the treatment period (Post). Asterisks denote statistically
signi®cant di€erences (P < 0.01) between the test performed before
and after the treatment period
Fig. 4 The electromyogram root-mean square EMGrms given as a
percentage of baseline (100%) recorded during each of the ®ve
repetitions lasting 1 min representing the treatment condition. The
un®lled column is the baseline and ®lled columns are the treatment
values. Asterisks denote statistically signi®cant di€erences
(P < 0.001) between the baseline value and values recorded during
the treatment
309
suggested that there is some dynamic fusimotor drive to
completely relaxed muscles operating in the human
hand, and that this drive is altered re¯exly by cutaneous
a€erent input from the hand itself when trains of stimuli
at non-noxious levels are applied to the palmar surface
of the ®ngers (Gandevia et al. 1994).
The in¯uence of Pacinian corpuscle has been dis-
carded since the indications in the literature refer to their
activation at higher frequencies of stimulation (Hamano
et al. 1993; Hollins and Roy 1996). In a study conducted
by Kodachi et al. (1987) a vibratory stimulus applied to
the skin of the ®nger tip induced a ¯exion re¯ex in that
®nger and when the characteristics of the re¯ex were
compared to those of TVR they showed wider spreading
e€ects, the conclusion of the researcher being that this
re¯ex could have originated from skin mechanoceptors
and involve a long loop. However, since the aim of the
present study was not to investigate the in¯uence of skin
mechanoceptors in re¯ex activation, we did not consider
their in¯uence since they were more likely to have in-
¯uenced re¯ex activity of the hand rather than the biceps
brachii muscle.
The improvement in muscle performance after VT has
been quoted (Bosco et al. 1998) to be similar to that oc-
curring after several weeks of heavy resistance training
(e.g. Ikai and Fukunaga 1970; Coyle et al. 1981; Ha-
kkinen and Komi 1985). In fact, the improvement in
muscle function after resistance training has been at-
tributed to enhancement of neuromuscular behaviour
caused by an increasing activity of higher motor centres
(Milner-Brown et al. 1975) The improvement of muscle
performance induced by VT would suggest that a neural
adaptation had occurred in response to VT. In this con-
nection, the duration of the stimulus would seem to be
important. Adaptive response of human skeletal muscle
to simulated hypergravity conditions (1.1 g), applied for
only 3 weeks, has been found to cause an improvement in
the behaviour of the leg extensor muscle (Bosco 1985).
Thus it is likely that both neural adaptation and length of
the stimulus play important roles in the improvement of
muscle performances (e.g. Bosco 1985).
During VT the elbow ¯exors were stimulated for a
total of 300 s. This duration was similar to that required
to ¯ex the elbow 600 times with a load equal to 5% of
the subject’s mb. Such a number of repetitions if made
three times a week with 50 repetitions each time would
take 1 month. The great initial increases noted in muscle
strength during the early weeks of intense strength
training has been explained through the increases in
maximal neural activation (e.g. Moritani and De Vries
1979). It is not easy to explain how the increased neural
output may occur or the intrinsic mechanism of neural
adaptation. Furthermore, a net excitation of the prime
mover motoneurons could result from increased excit-
atory input, reduced inhibitory input or both (e.g. Sale
1988). However, in the present experiment, the im-
provement of P, noted after VT, was not achieved by a
parallel potentiation of the EMG activity recorded in the
biceps brachii muscle (Table 2). Indeed after VT the
EMG activity in biceps brachii muscle was found to be
rather low (P < 0.01), even if during VT an increment
of neural input to the muscle occurred (Fig. 4). In this
respect the decrease of EMG activity of the biceps bra-
chii muscle associated with increase of P, showed that
VT induced an improvement of the neuromuscular e-
ciency of the elbow ¯exors.
It has been suggested that vibration leads to vasodi-
latation, attributable to a local axon re¯ex (Nakamura
et al. 1996). In the present study it was most probable
that VT could have induced vasodilatation and conse-
quently increased the temperature of the biceps brachii
muscle. It is dicult to explain the decrease of EMG
activity through this e€ect, since the phenomenon has
not yet been well explained, as has been demonstrated by
the contrasting results in the international literature. In
fact it has been shown that no changes occur in the
relationship between static force and EMGrms due to
temperature changes (Holewijn and Heus 1992). On the
other hand, a decrease of EMG activity has been re-
ported to be associated with a reduction of temperature
and muscle performance (e.g. Oksa et al. 1997). In
contrast, increasing room temperature, has been shown
to decrease the EMG/force relationship (Bell 1993). A
reduction of EMG activity associated with a given level
of force production has been shown to occur during the
later training weeks of a long-term resistance training
programme (Komi et al. 1978). On the other hand, when
strength athletes have trained for few weeks with sub-
maximal loads of 70%±80% of 1 repetition maximum
the maximal EMG decreased (Hakkinen and Komi
1985). It has also been argued that in the presence of
TVR the vibration induced suppression of motor output
in maximal voluntary contractions probably does not
depend on voluntary commands (Bongiovanni et al.
1990). It has been suggested that the contributing
mechanism might be vibration induced presynaptic in-
hibition and/or transmitter depletion in the group Ia
exitatory pathways which constitute the a€erent link of
the c-loop (Bongiovanni et al. 1990) However, attribu-
tion of the lower EMG found after VT to the e€ect of
TVR is rather dicult, since P was enhanced.
E-mail them ask for the nemesis vgc 3 emg unit. Ask for Rob Jonker.
Thanks! they promptly returned my e-mail. It looks like the total cost for this unit will cost around $3,350.00 including shipping. Not cheap by any means but a lot expensive than what I’ve found on the web.
What did you ask for? Thats eh way toooooo expensive… Are you sure you asked for the correct thing?
That price sounds like a new vibration machine not a simple emg system
I asked for the EMG VGC 3. The EMG is “not” listed as a product on their website but they will sell it. According to the salesman, EMG units are very expensive and this is the cheapest unit they have been able to find that can be utilized for vibration training. I agree, it is pricey but have you compared the cost of the other EMG units out there?
In your opinion, besides assessing performance, do you think an EMG assessment can guide a person in whether they are are considered endurance or speed athletes? And I am not taking into consideration potential, but what a particular person is at the time and EMG is administered. Every year, I watch a number of kids in middle school and high school track, that are put in distances that seem contrary to their natural God-given attributes. I know Peter Weyand, published a article which discussed a protocol to assess and predict performances, but this protocol is probably dependent on the runner having some kind of conditioning? Another words, taking a kid off the street might not give us a valid assessment?
thanks for your help
If you bought muscle lab you could use the bosco tests to predict muscle fibre type. You could also use this to assess activation on the Vibration but it would cost a LOT!