CF posting is posting your log :eek: ! maybe he sees the next track and field super start waiting to emerge 
I can see logic for both sides of the race plan arguement. However if I were you I would run my own race. Very good advice from Nikoluski too.
John, this is where the “race modelling” comes into its own. You determine how you want/need to race your best 400m, then you work on it in the peace and quiet of your training session. Just make a plan and then execute that plan in each stage of the 400m.
30 years younger and 15 seconds quicker for 400m maybe 
Friday 17 Movember
Sleep
6 ½ hours
Race modelling
5 x 100m with 300m walk recovery
KK will have a fit as I actually did them with a walk start from 400m start in lane 8 :eek: …why you ask? :rolleyes: In my case that first 100m is more crucial than from 150-250 mark. I found it great as I sussed out where I need to accelerate too which I didn’t really have sorted before. Feel good for race day tomorrow.
Recovery
Bath, foam roller and tennis ball later
Rating
8.5
Sleep
8 1/2 hours
Races
400m @ 64.42 PB (previous was 64.56)
rest 30 mins approx
200m @ 28.88 wind + 2.9
cold and wet conditions. Was really pleased with both races. 400m I did everything I planned. Took lane 8 even though I had about 3 other options. Accelerated to where I wanted to (just past 400m hurdle marker) and maintained to 200m, was surprised I was able to pick it up (well felt like it anyway) from there and held form pretty well to end. Will go harder over first 200m next time.
200m was good and strong although not a great time.
Hang snatch
2 mins rest
30 x 3, 35 x 3, 40 x 3,
3 mins rest
45 x 1s x 2r
42 x 4s x 3r
each set followed immediately by 3 x depth jumps
Superset with 90 secs between
DB press 3s x 5r x 30db
Box squat 3s x 5r x 90
Tri set with 60 secs between
SLDL 3s x 5r x 82
Dips 3s x 5r
Chins 3s x 5r
Abs
10 mins various 30 sec on 30 sec off
Prones x 2 mins
Recovery
bath and foam roller later
Rating
8.5
Just got programme for meet on 16 Decmber and looks like no 400m race :mad: so will probably do 100m & 200m. On the plus side though I can race the next 2 Saturdays as Children’s meet is on Sunday next week
Sleep
6 1/2 hours
stayed up and watched 24 which doesn’t start till 10.30 :mad:
Recovery session
warm up
abs & med ball flexibility
15 mins various 30 sec on 30 sec off
Prones x 2 mins
Static stretch
Bath later.
Actually feel pretty good today despite big day yesterday and late to bed (for me anyway ) not too tired and definitely not sore or too tight
John, are you able to get somebody to hand time your 1st 200 for these 400 races? Seeing your doing a 200 in 28.8, One would imagine you should be able to go through in 29.9 or 30flat?? Then, if your fit enough, finnish off with a 33? Get the right conditions, i would expect a 63 for you soon? 
You just need the right conditions, and the right mental attitude going into it.
Great minds think alike Hence my comment Will go harder over first 200m next time. I’m sure I can convince my son to come on Saturday and get me a 200m split, doing that or studying for exams… not tough a decision I’m picking. I’m guessing the fitness may be the issue, will be interesting to see.
Get him to take the 300m split while he’s at it.
Well before the track program starts, preferably, walk around to find the 300m mark and perhaps put something down on the outside of the track (on the grasswhatever) which will be visible from 100m away.
Then make sure he knows well in advance if possible what lane you’ll race in so he can find the 200m stagger (split mark) for that lane during your 400m race.
Then he needs to line up near the your 200m split line, get that split-time, then get his bearings to grab a split for 300m as you run on.
Then you’ll have fairly reliable splits for 200m, the third 100m (and 300m) and the 4th 100m (300 deducted from the final official 400m time).
If you could get someone to take your split at 100m, you would have a good breakdown of the entire race which would be very useful.
I don’t really see how you can draw conclusions without splits for each 100m segment.
But a 200m and 300m split will help a lot.
That may be a bit advanced for him and my crappy stopwatch but I’m sure I can arrange something
Sleep
7 1/2 hours
Long Hills
15 mins rest
4 x 350 (approx) @ 82.5, 85.04, 85.04, 85.91
Rating
7
Times weren’t much use for comparison with others as was into a strong headwind.
Having a recovery day like I did yesterday worked well as felt fine.
Question re the first 100m of my 400m races, what should I be aiming for? 
Hi John,
I’ve been following your journal for awhile and find it really interesting. If your next goal was to be 62.0 seconds, then you might try going out in 15.5 sec for the first 100m. Then do the backstretch in 14.5 (200m in 30.0), the curve in 15.5 (300m in 45.5) and the homestretch in 16.5. This is assuming you have fitness to run 30 plus 32, but at the worst you’ll end up with a mid-63 or something, if you were to die coming home.
Thanks for the input, when you say interesting you mean like people stare at an accident? hahahahaha
I thought of around 15-15.5 (certainly no more) for that first 100. I ask as I think this week I’ll move the race modeling to Wednesday and self time it to try and get it within range. It will be from a standing start so will aim for closer to 15…I have a feeling it isn’t that fast.
remember, 1, your not coming out of blocks, so a touch slower. 2. the 1st 10m is the slowest by double, so its done in 2.xs v’s 1.xs therefore, the average time for both the 15.5 st 100m and the 14.5 nd 100m is the same pace. Like a fly start 29. v’s the nd 200 done in 33s on a fly start, or a 34-34.5 from a standing start. (so currently maybe your coming home in 34s fly? = 35-35.5 standing)
One of kk’s workouts were 6-8 200’s with 2min recovery at pace off your last 200m time. Does that sound do-able?
Unless you’re a middle distance type, I’d settle for 5x200 in the pace of the last 200m of your target 400m time.
But for practical purposes, JOhn could start with the comehome 200m time of his most recent 400m race, and he could break the session down if needs into two sets of 3x200 and then 2x200 in the goal time.
John, rather than do your 400m modelling for the race start from a standing position, do it from a 3-point posture which better simulates the acceleration patterning without fatiguing the quads which can be the case when using crouch/block starts.
But eventually you are going to need to do some of your race modelling from blocks, because you want it to approximate the race feeling, so that there are no surprises on race-day. I don’t like surprises. They usually mean a failure to plan/anticipate correctly.
By the way Jon’s split projections are spot-on for you. Just make sure you roll on through the entire race though, don’t actually run the race like it’s a collection of sections. It’s obviously one single run. (but you’d be surprised how many 400m novices mess up the bends by simply thinking they’ve arrived at the terminus of the preceding 100m segment :o )
I can do from blocks that isn’t an issue at all it is just getting the time hence my suggestion of standing start.
So if I aimed to do a session of 5 x 200 (either straight through or 3 & 2 depending upon how it goes) @ 33? Or should I wait till we have some factual data?
at your goal come home pace! so your looking at currently 62-63sec pace + add sec for the standing start.
i would imagine knock off your 63s 4001st, then start aiming for a sub 61, then aim for a sub 60s. Looking at your 200m speed, i would imagine that will need improvement before sub 60s will happen. But getting fitter by knocking off some 63s and 61s 400’s will make your 200m faster too. I would think a 26s 200m is needed to break through 60s 400m. (roughly). So dont set your race pace goals too fast for your current ability. String together some WINS (not race wins but time wins), finnish off some training sessions that make you say, Damn, i have finnally done that. Build upon your confidence with victories, one after the other. Once you can do say 5x200’s in 33s, knock em down to doing 5x200’s in 32. Because if you do, you should at the same time start knocking off a 64s 400, then a 63, then a 62 ect ect. I wouldnt try knocking off a 5sec improvement.
if you like at it like so;
doing 5 x 200’s in 33 might make you run a 400 in 63s
doing 5 x 200’s in 32 might made you run a 400 in 62
so even though a race might not be on by the time you have done 5x200s in 32, you can almost be sure that you can do a 400 in 62… So then, its time to readjust your training and start aiming for a 61s 400m
I edited it between times as I reread the postas I had read it as last 200m race (silly John :rolleyes: ) .
Your comments make total sense thanks…shit it’s like spoon feeding a bloody kid :eek:
This advice is far too sensible for John
if I want smart arse comments I’ll talk to my wife and kids thanks
Sleep
7 hours
Track
5 x 100m from blocks from 400m start, 300m walk recovery
Tried to race model these but it was tricky due to a strong wind …AGAIN! :mad: Times were between 14.44 and close to 16 …gee that worked well :rolleyes:
rest 15 mins
300m @ 50.19
rest 2 mins
300m @ 53.87
rest 2 mins
200m @ 32.29
At least there was plenty of lactate for last 200m which was with wind.
Rating
4
wind and heaps of others there made it tricky, and couldn’t get into it. Was running late and have a lot of things in a mess right now. :mad: at work and at home our upstairs and kitchen STILL not operational …was meant to be late this week but more likely next. :mad:
Couldn’t be stuffed doing weights when I got home. :eek: