Hahaha, I bet we could find a few trainers out there flipping tires before soccer practice and doing a few farmer’s walks. That’s the sad part.
I need to start saying american football on here. Forget that it means two different things. I train a few soccer(football) kids, and they benefit greatly from general strength programs. I use a variation of 531 with all my athletes, just changing the rep protocols and exercises of the assistance and auxillary work. Depends on the sport. I am a big fan of simplicity. I can’t say if what I do is superior, but I will take the results. Most of the kids that do our program are highly injury resistant and superior in many facets physically to their contemporaries. I like the KISS principle. When it comes to injury, I think ESTI and myself like to nip things in the bud before they become full blown issues. Technology can be your friend. That being said, I don’t like gimmicky things, there has to be an effect I can see or feel myself before I ever use anything.
Why 5-3-1???
The conditioning coach at Manchester United spent a week with Louie Simmons at Westside discussing workouts & everything he learn’t/has read is used very sparingly in the whole scheme of things there. Very sparingly. A lot of the players look as though there not lifting anything or anything relatively heavy.
The worst training method I saw on the training pitch was at a semi professional soccer club & they were carrying atlas stones in pairs of 5, dropping them, for the next 5 to carry in the other direction.
These things had enough weight to crush ones foot. Training which would scare me $hitless.
Its a scary world out there, especially at the wrongs clubs with the wrong trainers, more suited for training guys in the Highland Games Strongman event.
Yes some coaches have tried to use tire flipping in soccer and farmers walks etc
It’s just bullsh1t
As for Man Utd or other coaches at Westside - even if that’s true, that’s just a waste of time, especially at the higher end clubs.
Although strength training does have its place at higher end clubs.
(Without debating the definition of ‘strength training’ as applied to soccer) - That’s an opinion sadly not a (universal) fact.
All the top players seem to be getting stronger & stronger (faster), you can see it in there bodies.
C.Ronaldo, Rooney, Messi etc…
Appearance means nothing.
Drawing the conclusion (in soccer) that simply ‘looking strong’ means they lift weights is completely incorrect. The fact is that some clubs are lucky if they even have gyms.
Example - The ‘strongest’ looking player in the EPL is probably Drogba.
He doesn’t lift.
to say look a C. Ronaldo. Last I checked, he was one of the worlds best. My bottom line belief is all things being equal, the stronger athlete almost always wins. There isn’t a sport where strength isn’t a factor including golf. RB 34, I use it because I get exceptional results with it. Most of my athletes have too short of an off season to go into block periodization, so I use a conjugate hybrid. I would be lucky to get through GPP and half of SPP before they go back. 75% of their year is under different programs, except football. I routinely have kids who test at the top of their incoming classes every year in strength, speed, and agility… Until I see a reason to change things, I don’t.
No 23, do you think that much like hockey , baseball, and hoop, perhaps strength training is late getting to soccer? I remember Charlie telling me how he thought 90% of hockey training he saw was crap. I believe the quote was “If you are doing one thing right, you are already better than 90% of the trainers out there. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.” Charlie was funny. I started following his methods and things I learned along the way, and for 3 years running, I have a scoring champ for AAA Tier 1 hockey. Do everything pretty much against the grain, and with wonderful success. I owe a lot to Charlie and his guidance. My one kid is supposed to go top 20 in OHL draft next year. He is strong for a 15 year old and it shows on the ice. Can’t move him off the puck. His father said since he started training with me 5 years ago, you can see his game pick up every year. we started with super light weights and body weight exercises. Now he out squats many of my college football kids with ease. I actually hold him back so he doesn’t get too muscular. World cup looks pretty physical. I imagine the same holds true for it as well.
In terms of physical preparation soccer is undoubtedly behind other sports.
That said you must bear in mind some coaches, teams and players have been exceptionally successful without S&C training.
Strength training would make a big difference to a soccer club and some time, some where a club will adopt a proper policy and change the game.
This will take a unique change in the sport though as the culture of the sport does not encourage it.
The biggest factor in soccer though is skill. In my estimation and based on experience, I would think that skill has an approx 70% effect, influence or determination on game outcome, with physical taking up the most of the rest.
In most other sports like NFL, for example it’s the inverse.
This means that bang for buck it makes more sense to buy players who are skillful and develop them physically, invest in skill and whatever money is left over is spent on S&C.
Also, look at the sport. It’s a money driven sport, where logic and due diligence are foreign words, it’s more sensible to invest in the player recruitment, tactical awareness and preparation and use what’s left over for S&C.
And, again look at the pre-season and off-season. There is little time for actual player development - 4 weeks in some cases after the World Cup this year.
I’m talking about EPL Level in this regard, but it’s one of the Gold standards and what people look at for leadership - so unless it’s done there it’s not going to be followed too soon.
Many clubs have gyms, most only recently. Some do strength work, most don’t. Strength work is mostly body weight or very light weights if it’s done and in 90% of the cases managed by the physio’s in a rehab sense, not someone with ‘proper’ S&C knowledge.
People talk about Ronaldo and others. It’s the same with any magazine article. He’s athletic and very lean and has a genetic predetermination, but as regards strength training, I don’t know what he does now, but previously it was limited if even done at all.
My advice is to be very careful drawing conclusions from images and photo’s, foolish at best if that’s your only source of knowledge. Most clubs don’t do proper strength training, mostly as they don’t have the time to fit it into the program and neither have they the expertise.
If you take Charlie’s quote on hockey and apply it to soccer I think he might say something like … “If you’re doing anything, you are already better than 90% of the trainers out there. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.”
I guess from the level of players I deal with, the skill is travel club level high school. Some will play college, but nothing major. Most of them are down right weak to the point of it being a concern from a movement sense. Since training, the biggest things I see are increased confidence, increased velocity of movement, and ball speed. Honestly, I think the kids feel stronger, therefore their playing more aggressively and it’s helping their games according to their coaches. Plus, many of them were injured constantly before under going strength training, not so much anymore. Yeah, I guess I am just one of those who wishes I got more time in the training process, not unlike most other trainers. Been doing this close to 20 years and have seen big changes in the coaches attitudes toward what we do. Just seems like some sports are very resistant to change.
If S&C can work in Soccer anywhere it will be the US first and with children initially also.
As S&C coaches need to do what you can, how you can and develope on an individual basis for those willing and keep hope in your back pocket for change over time.
I think this sums it up perfectly IMO, from another forum…
I was chatting to my mate last night and mentioned this to him. He has played in the premiership and has played for many different clubs.
He said that they do resistance training, but in football the emphasis is on skill, endurance and recovery. Also he mentioned that players with a more muscular physique (drogba etc) are generally built that way. Players who are bulk up may not be able to last 90 minutes on a regular basis.
Essentially due to the nature of the sport there is a trade off and it is not possible to train for the explosive speed and power and be an endurance athlete at the same time.
Forgive me, I have not read this entire thread. But from what I gather this thread discusses the role of S&C in soccer.
The role of endurance vs Strength/Speed/Power. Strength and power training might not seem to be of benefit in a game that is 90 minutes long and has a great endurance component.
Consider the following: while a player may not be able to hold 100% pace while driving forward with the ball for long, he can train so that 100% is now his 85%. This player now has a greater speed reserve when playing. He now plays at a higher level for the entire game. Previously he could only play at 85% of his previous speed and capacity. Regardless of his endurance capacity before and after, he can maintain a higher pace for longer.
I liken any sport that has an intermittent ballistic requirement to the 400m. The more speed/Power you have the less sprinting down a court will take from you, the less a jump shot takes from your legs, ect… The difference between the 400m and these sports are that the 400m actually builds the lactic acid and thus the aerobic component is required.
Because no athlete can hold 100% of their sports intensity for the entire game, and so they typically play at a percentage of it. Endurance training will only raise the percentage of intensity you play at from 85 to 90%. But speed/power training keeps the percentage the same and raises the magnitude. So raise the magnitude instead of the percentage and you’ll out run and outjump others without breaking a sweat.
The issue of bulking up causes a decrease in fitness,in my experiences, is false. If this were the case, then the fitness program needs to be revamped. I have had college players gain upwards of 10 lbs and increase fitness (measures on various tests) over 14 weeks of off season.
I think there is more to this issue then we know. I would be curious how much say the coach has into what is being done. Also, the performance coach likes to keep his job and might not want to rock the boat and does enough to please everyone involved, leaving the players being shorted on their performance. This has occurred with many NFL teams here in the states. S&Cs do the minimal work, and most of it machine based lifting of 2-3x101-2 reps of everything. Athletes don’t get hurt, they (S&C) keep their jobs. Adding plyos, or squats without belts (i.e. NY Yankees fiasco a few years back) and players start bitching, getting hurt, and then you have a firing on your hands.
In soccer the medical team have the authority, in Rugby it’s the fitness team; they dictate training volume and durations in all the training.
When Steve Bruce was at Wigan he actually banned the players from the gym because he thought they would get injured. So I am interested in what he did when he got to Sunderland as I know they lifted in some manner there (Bruce actually played alongside Sunderland’s S&C coach at Man Utd, who coincidentally is the son of the Man Utd S&C coach). Would Bruce change his mind in these circumstances?
Implementing things like this take a long time, and the pro’s are a lost cause. The mindset has to be created at the academy level. Old dog, new tricks and all that.
I agree! I have seen Liverpool’s academy physical training and it appears they seem to copy most of the premiership’s team’s programs. Mainly machine weights, 2-3x10-12!
When a club decides to break tradition, we may see changes, but I don’t anticipate them anytime soon.