Good post Jon - concise and to the point …
(Nice to see a sensible argument and debate taking place with no childish egos getting in the way)
How can one measure the GROUND CONTACT TIME?
Or w/ out equipment what can we look for, is it the sound of the foot strike after a certain distance, ie 60m?
Thanks in advance?
Kenny Mac ~~~
Originally posted by jonblazn
DCW,
Like you said previously we are probably not debating anything other than terminology. Perhaps my initial hangup was that you seemed to be stating in your first post that complete triple extension not only occurs but is in fact beneficial. Now it seems you are saying that complete triple extension (as you call it) is not really complete triple extension (as I call it) at all.
No, on the contrary I’m saying that complete triple extension (as you call it) is not really complete triple extension (as I call it) at all. 
Let’s see if we agree on the following points, in which case we can stop chasing each other’s tails:
[ul]
[li]Extension to the MAXIMUM range of the hip, knee, and ankle joint most likely does not ever occur during maximal speed running.[/li] Certainly not to MAXIMUM range of motion. We are sprinting, not doing a stretching class after all!
[li]High (but not quite complete) extension angles, especially in the knee and ankle, at the moment of toeoff are important for mechanical efficiency in sprinting. [/li] Yes, if we use your definition of complete.
[li]Lower, less complete hip extension values may be an indication of a higher hip position at toe off which is advantageous in sprinting. [/li] The hip extension is as complete as the hip height will allow. Any further would be counterproductive.
[li]To the untrained eyed, the extent of triple extension is not easily observed due to the velocity of movement, and thus may be underestimated.[/li] True
[li]To the trained coach’s eye, highly proficient sprinters will appear to achieve complete triple extension, despite not truly being complete triple extension.
[/li]
If we use your definition, yes.
[li]To the the biomechanist’s eye, highly proficient sprinters will achieve very high extension angles at the ankle and knee and relatively lower angles at the hip.
[/li]
Yes.
[/ul]
By the way, not to get in to another shoot out, but your argument about the joints not really being able to achieve maximal extension values simultaneously does not really make sense because if all joints in question are in extension they will not limit each other’s ability to reach maximal extension…you can try it for yourself.
I think you conveniently removed that statement from its context.
I think you are sort of missing the point. When I am referring to complete triple extension, I am referring to extension that is maximal for the given activity. Any less the athlete could be darting, any more they could be pushing. Your definition of complete extension I would define as over extension. Its the difference in terminilogy between one who coaches an athlete to run faster, and one who observes a human being going through a series of movements.
Jonblazin,
If we took triple extension to mean complete extension of the hip, wouldn’t exeptionaly flexible athletes require asbestos jox to cope with the … er … friction?
You’re arguing semantics and going far beyond what most practical biomechanists reffer to as triple extension.
I’d suggest that this type of thing is a more practical aplication of the word.
0% body fat on that scary individual
i get shivers :o
nice triple extension, by anyone’s definition.
I think this is a wording issue- not an arguement of fact- at least as I understand it.
Originally posted by dcw23
I think you are sort of missing the point. When I am referring to complete triple extension, I am referring to extension that is maximal for the given activity. Any less the athlete could be darting, any more they could be pushing. Your definition of complete extension I would define as over extension. Its the difference in terminilogy between one who coaches an athlete to run faster, and one who observes a human being going through a series of movements.
That sounds good, ultimately just another example of 2 people saying the same thing but using different langauges.
Dazed-
I’m not “arguing” anything. From the beginning it was obvious DCW and myself were both essentially trying to clear up differences in terminology. The only reason I debated this in the first place was because I was on the misunderstanding that DCW23 thought the “more the better” when it came to triple extension. I debated this because I (and as has now been established DCW23 also) believe that there is an optimum range of motion for sprint mechanics, which if exceeded, will actually be detrimental to the athlete’s performance. This is an important point and I thought it was important to clarify this because DCW23’s words, as I previously understood them, were wrong. We have since agreed that complete triple extension (as I use the word) does not occur and would be disadvantageous to make a goal of sprint mechanics. We were essentially saying the same thing using different terminology.
Before anyone posts about terminology again, please read the above posts to see that DCW23 and I both now understand each other’s terminology and do in fact believe the same things but would just prefer to say it in different ways. In end, I made my point, DCW made his, and like Charlie pointed out, most of the debate was over a misunderstanding in terminology.
J Blazin, what kind of weights does your team emphasize? general strength period or specific? anything would be cool, it would be nice to learn about how one of the best teams in the country prepares? what about workouts. is there a general theme? ie. short to long, long to short etc? Thanks, take care…
ps… Ripley is the man, I would have to agree
Charlie i know you have covered this in the achievs but with the clip-- Ferguson is almost hitting her bum with her heel before coming forward. This obviously. It seem like she is not bringing the keen forward to emphasis the Step-Over.What say you?
Originally posted by toks
Charlie i know you have covered this in the achievs but with the clip-- Ferguson is almost hitting her bum with her heel before coming forward. This obviously. It seem like she is not bringing the keen forward to emphasis the Step-Over.What say you?
We are not all built the same. She is stepping over nicely. If she tried to work on knee based cues she would be running much more slowly.
dcw23
I KNOW YOU SAY THAT BUT IS IT NOT THE FACT THAT THE FASTEST WAY FORWARD IS FOR HER TO MOVE HER KNEE UP AND DOWN, DONT FORGET IT AN UP AND DOWN MOTION.I UNDERTSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BUT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY SHE CANT BE TRAINED TO DO THIS?
I ASKED CHARLIE THIS QUESTION A WHILE AGO AND HE SAID DOING ACCELERATION RUN EMPHASISISG THE STEP OVER IS THE KEY. IREMEBER YOU ANSWERED THE ? YOURSELF AND SUGGESTED DOING SOME BUTT-KICK(PROPERLY) EXERCISES