I don’t have a coach… my coach is myself and he’s not that good ha. I’m with a local club from time to time (spring break, summer vacation) but it’s not available to me during school time. Their training is rather disorganized… but I love training long jump with their coaches. I have already seen a lot of improvement in that area.
At this time I’m just putting pieces of workout together, such as speed, tempo, technique in one week. I use to be after the “perfect program”, but if i wait until conditions are optimal I will never get anywhere. So I’m very fortunate I can post speed-related questions and hurdle technique to CF forum, you guys provide a lot of help!
If you want to improve faster, you’ll want to find a coach. How far can you travel to train? Vancouver Olympic Club or Kajaks might be worth looking into.
Yeah I’ve seen athletes of those clubs perform and they are magnificent. But the problems I’d have to outreach to participate in club training is more than just transportation. I honestly like the serene atmosphere of training alone. One thing I do not like is how there is no immediate feedback, however I’ve found a solution and that is video feedback. I think CF forum will give me a lot of advice regarding the intricacies of hurdling, even more so than the dearth of authoritative knowledge I feel that is present in BC. Hopefully I can still run self-satisfying times following this way. And at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is running a time that you feel reflects your profile!
Did a 50m race today. I was a little nervous before the race. But I did calm myself down in the moment I needed to. Any feedback? What would this time mean in the high hurdles? I am the guy in blue.
[video=youtube_share;xMIOLukJp_k]http://youtu.be/xMIOLukJp_k[/video]
It was very difficult to see too much in the race but it looked like you won which does not hurt. Speed of any sort will allow a great advantage to buffer technical skill until the hurdles get too high anyway.
How old are you?
It’s tough training on your own however Jccc. But perhaps your reasons for running are different and perhaps the idea of training alone means more to you than to compromise other values you appear to have. I do want to point out that regardless of what you think I feel you are putting yourself at an enormous disadvantage in terms of the goals you have set. If you were just wanting to have a good time than fine. As soon as you add performance into the equation not having timely feedback deadens the progress significantly. Never forget that practice makes permanent so if your feed back turn around is 24 hours and another’s is 30 seconds after their run how much time are you loosing or put another way how much time are you working less efficiently and effectively as well?
Once you achieve a certain amount than the task of training alone might be reasonable depending on the type of work you need to perform. Ideally quality of all training is essential. Hard to mess up tempo on the bike and in the pool for example but there is always a way to grab something from those training sessions and it’s not just about putting in the time for tempo to feed the speed. In general one of the biggest issues in training is judgement coming from the person performing the work. Judgement is honed over time from experience and quality of work over years.
Think about some of this.
I do not want to sound negative but I do want you to understand what you are up against in relation to the goals you have shared with us here.
Having said all of this life is all about choices , challenges and lessons we learn along the journey. I am basing my thoughts and opinions on things I have experienced , seen and been a part of at the highest level. You have a goal and perhaps this goal will be achieved by you without compromise of your other wants.
If we are able to help you that will be great thing.
What you are trying to do is exciting and admirable and I don’t mean to be discouraging or a nay sayer either. It’s not all about winning ( someone told me that and it’s really kinda cool that you have these ideas about what and how you want things.
Back to hurdling - I tried to do a few sprint over hurdles today, after my mobility/more specific hurdle drills. (After focusing on the mobility, I feel my whole running process become faster, so that’s great) However, I can’t seem to get to the first hurdle without cutting my steps short. Is that a genuine problem? I felt scared over the hurdle, so that was bad anyways. Do you think the 7-step is feasible for me??
6.49s over 50m is probably worth around 11.80-12.00s in the 100m. To run 14.1 in the 110m hurdles you probably need to be in low 11s - high 10s 100m shape.
Ouch! The bleak reality hurts! That time conversion is really accurate, I ran a 12.00~ ht on Thursday(2 days before the 6.49). I am sure my time is going to decrease as the season goes on, so that’s great! 14.1 is a very tough time
My warm up was interrupted because the schedule is so late, so other than few leg swings, there was not preparation before my race. There were also no blocks. When I went over the hurdles, I felt myself FLOATING! Aries Meritt said he was floating hurdles but I was actually Floating! That feeling was so devastating! My lead arm was also very ahead of my body so went I pulled it back it was just a chaos.
The video is really hard to pick on anything, but any feedback will be appreciate, greatly!
I thought from what I could see you looked pretty good. You had no competition and that makes it kinda tough but that is ok for early on in the season.
How long did you allow to warm up?
A very important lesson is how to learn to buffer what is very typical at many meets. If you learn how to handle this fact it’s an area that will become an advantage to you. Always allow more time to warm up , not less than what you need. The fitter and more experienced you are the more you will be able to " hang on" to your warm up. Likely , because you are training you are more able to hang on to your warm up than your competitors. Say your warm up is 30 minutes. Take one hour or 45 minutes before your event. Do your warm up and then sit and wait and keep yourself warm and shake your legs and wait. When everyone else is scrambling ( and they will because i have seen this countless times even at the national level ) you will be over chilling and relaxing and dreaming of your perfect race ;). The most important thing jCC is you know your preparation was not ideal or sufficient.
Feedback about times is great and interesting but really in my view you need to focus on a bunch of other things and that " time " thing will come together when you are ready.
When? Next week at 5pm on the … I don’t know as I don’t see into the future , at least not yet. ( I tend to try and work on this as I like control) Yes, I am kidding.
Getting more races is good.
How about your regeneration ? I know you are young and kids tend not to think this way but I want you to try and think of ways you can actively rejuvenate yourself for your training so the next time you have your speed session you are feeling more recovered. You need to be doing speed work when you are as fresh and as rested as possible. I know with kids this can be the luck of the draw but see if you can make a thoughtful effort to rest and actively do so. Give me some of your thoughts on that. ( yes,you can say Ange I have no clue what the heck you are talking about )
The floating? Yeah, been there. How are your nerves ? When you start thinking in the race that you are floating I ask myself how nervous are you?
You are doing a great job.
I love that you are posting video and that shows how motivated you are. Who is doing the filming for you?
You can fix the first hurdle thing but we need to see more examples. We need to get your turn over and I am wondering about your blocks and how to adjust them differently.
I had to switch my lead leg in order to get to the first hurdle but that was so long ago that it just seems normal now. I am not sure you need to do this but it would be good to have more video to see it.
Thanks for the kind words Ange. My warm up usually takes 30 minutes - 45 minutes. Usually on the lower end as I’m not a glutton for hard work … As for the regeneration… I actually didn’t do much after the meet. But I learned after the soreness which refused to go away I’ll probably have to do a cool-down job and some stretching. I take cold showers after my track workouts but I’ve never actually tried a contrast one after. By the time I get home I’m already reluctant to shower, and to have some cold water down my spine seems like a horrible idea… And from Brent McFarlane’s Speed book I learned that extensive tempo work can also aid in recovery (also provides a plethora of other benefits as well) Any tips on that regard?
Was I nervous? I actually wasn’t. The thing that just kept bugging me was, “Could I make it to the first hurdle in 8 steps?” The day before the meet I could not get 8 steps no matter what. However that idea disappeared now; I was probably a little excited and kept my strides and speed very sprinter like. Who’s filming me? My school track team i love them. They make the very lonely sport so much more enjoyable.
Again thanks for your concerns Ange, your words provide so much motivation.
To help with video set up for 110m, using a bleacher if possible, around Hurdle 6. The zoom should be good enough for most of the race without zooming out. If no bleachers, then zoom the camera all the way in and walk back until you are a reasonable size on the screen. I would set up at hurdle 6. That would help with your analysis.
It looks like the delay in the lead arm position is causing you to bend forward on touchdown instead of being tall. Tall at take off, tall at touch down.
For training, Ange’s advice to me has worked incredibly well. For 14.1, you would need to run splits of around 1.1 per touchdown interval. Set up training distances to mimic this rhythm. For my sub 14 hurdler, its 9 yard spacing in spikes, or 8.5 yards in hallway in flats when weather is poor. Indoors we worked mainly through 4 hurdles in training, now working to 6 hurdles at race rhythm.
i didn’t feel the best for this workout. when i go over the first hurdle, im not scared at all, but after adding more hurdles, i start to doubt myself. for the past workouts, i’ve really tried to keep my trail arm tight and really use it to speed myself off the hurdle (also helps with torso rotation, though it’s still there). however my trail leg Is just making everything worse for me. I’m starting to implement more drills but it refuses to change. Are there any ways I can correct this faster and more efficient ?
I actually thought your trail leg was fine, it’s your trail arm that I think is causing you problems. Your trail arm seems to hover right next to your hips, when it should be going much further back - more like a running stride. While obviously your technique isn’t going to be as good as an Olympic gold medalist, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0d2YT5MPo. I am a best an OK hurdle coach - maybe Ang or ESTII will chime in here.
One thing that stood out for me was how wide your first two steps are out of the blocks. Try keeping those first two steps tighter towards the midline of your body to keep yourself moving forward instead of ‘skating’. If I see you at BCHS this year, I might come say hello.
I think the trail leg is coming to the front a lot better. A chest height camera view of the drills from head on will confirm it but it looked like on the drills your foot was coming over the line. The is coming down and then up and back causing trunk twisting on touchdown. I would probably cue you to stop the arm at the hip and see how you respond to that.
I agree with block starts as well. Do you do many medicine ball throws? Even a few sets of 3-5 throws during speed days will help. Without looking at the block set up and hip angles its hard to say more.
put in another session. i think that my trail leg is actually a lot better now! i tried to keep your guy’s advice for the bent trail arm like a sprinting position… but it’s a lot harder than just going out and trying to do it. my lead arm i think is better, but i think i can still improve it by keeping it on my forehead instead of too far in front of my body because it always makes me rotate.
ESTI - I did not know about the benefits of med ball throws. I guess that’s why I always pop-up near the start in my 100 races. I’ve read up some good exercises and how it can help with my start. I think it’ll help me a lot in the future. Are there any tips on using it? I was thinking about doing it between my drills in my warm-up.
questions:
just out of curiosity - how fast do you guys think i can run for the 110MH (39")? At the minute, I definitely think I am capable of a low 15. Just by watching me go over the first/second hurdle, do you have any guess at how fast I can run it?
What’s the biggest difference between me and your near sub-14 hurdler ESTI? Is it raw speed or just technique or what is it?
Judging by the looks of it - I think I am capable of taking the gold at the BCHS, and making the BC Team for Legion Nationals. But running 14.6 and anything lower this year would make it so much better…
The lead leg is getting around the front better than before. The reach arm on take off looks ok, but try to pause the video around 51 sec at touchdown. Notice the extreme trunk rotation with the arm nearly completely behind the back. I have found trying to get the hand under the trail leg knee often stops the trunk rotation. When my athletes arm gets too high he rotates the same way. When he keeps his hand low its a thing of beauty.
ESTI - I did not know about the benefits of med ball throws. I guess that’s why I always pop-up near the start in my 100 races. I’ve read up some good exercises and how it can help with my start. I think it’ll help me a lot in the future. Are there any tips on using it? I was thinking about doing it between my drills in my warm-up…
IF you can, try to get the GPP download. It has all the info there for throws.
just out of curiosity - how fast do you guys think i can run for the 110MH (39")? At the minute, I definitely think I am capable of a low 15. Just by watching me go over the first/second hurdle, do you have any guess at how fast I can run it?
What’s the biggest difference between me and your near sub-14 hurdler ESTI? Is it raw speed or just technique or what is it? …
In these videos, how far apart are the hurdles? Regular height and regularly spaced? Take a look through my journal on 110H.
We have found our success and improvements come from reducing hurdle height and spacing so that touchdown times are rhtymic to the goal time. We are shooting for sub 13.60 and I look at various hurdle charts to get an idea of what the touchdowns should be and then put him in position to achieve those. At this point, the only time he goes full height and spacing is in a race. Ideally for him, 9 yard spacing at 36" leads to 1.0 splits from H2-6 in training. When we trained inside the hallway, it was 8.5 yards in trainers to get the 1.0 splits.
He is also very fast, running in the 10.80 range, having done training runs at 120m of sub 13.2 and 150 at 16.1 4 weeks ago. I have used the speed first for several weeks with some hurdle work and then went to hurdle specific work with minimal maintance speed/SE work.
Is it not weird for the hurdler to practice at a lower height then come into a race and race at a different height…? That idea sounds good and I would like to try it but my only worry is that since 36" and 39" are different, the difference between training and racing would be too different. What are your thoughts on that?
And wow, he is a lot faster than me :p. I recorded a 11.74 just this week so he’s around 1 second faster than me!
I know I’m definitely capable of a sub-15 now. This track is not that fast. And with higher competition, both quantity, and quality, my time will definitely improve. I hit the first hurdle, which is weird because I do a lot of sprints over the first hurdle. During the race I didn’t feel like I was floating the hurdles as I did earlier in the season, but I felt like the whole hurdling motion could be faster. There was a “time-warp” I believe. My lead arm and trail arm didn’t behave properly but it’s good; I know what to fix now. Looking back at the footage, I felt that I would benefit from my hurdle endurance work - I got less snappy over the last few hurdles.
It is very common for hurdlers to practice lower heights to get used to the rhythm/timing/feeling of going faster. My hurdlers are on low hurdles (or spaced closer) at least half the time.
I think you are used to being higher and slower over the hurdles, so as your technique improves and you get lower/faster, you don’t make as much use out of your speed as you could. You are hovering/pausing a big before your lead leg comes down and your trail leg comes through. Try pulling your trail leg through sooner.
and it’s really kinda cool that you have these ideas about what and how you want things.