Strength Endurance

[John]

Has anyone used single leg calf raises for strength endurance? I am recovering from an injury and my physio has me doing them. My PB is currently 112 (he can do 300+) and I find I start getting sore hip flexors around 90.

[sady]

@John

Has anyone used single leg calf raises for strength endurance? I am recovering from an injury and my physio has me doing them. My PB is currently 112 (he can do 300+) and I find I start getting sore hip flexors around 90.

I assume you have the bar on the shoulders, I isolated and used the seated calf raise. guess the answer is yes but the first time I could not walk for 3 days

[PhilG]

Hi RB, if you get the chance to look at the Strength DVD Series, Charlie gives an insight into the use of depletion press ups.

Number Two, in the Edmonton series graphs, Charlie has a sample L-S programme where he includes Running A’s after the 2 Special Endurance sessions. As I understand it was not an actual programme used for any particular athlete but why include strength endurance units when 300’s and 600’s were in the programme. I know you helped in the making of the DVD’s was this example aimed at a 200m or 400m athlete.

[RandyG]

Good morning all…

I’ve used running A’s either at the end of special/strength endurance workout durring the SPP phase. I’ve even found them useful after a hill sessions or after individual hill runs (runs of 80m or longer). Lasty during late SPP (on Sats after Fri hill session) I have made them apart of a bound-run-drill circuit (i.e., 60m Straight leg bnd+200m Tempo+30 to 60m running A’s).

My distances were always between 30 and 60m for 6 to 2 reps…The few times I did such work above 60m (i.e., 80m) I’ve used skipping (fast marching) A’s.

I’ve hadn’t add any real hip issues that some have spoke of. I good post workout flexibility/mobility routine has helped that.

RG

[James_Smith]

@PhilG

Hi RB, if you get the chance to look at the Strength DVD Series, Charlie gives an insight into the use of depletion press ups.

Number Two, in the Edmonton series graphs, Charlie has a sample L-S programme where he includes Running A’s after the 2 Special Endurance sessions. As I understand it was not an actual programme used for any particular athlete but why include strength endurance units when 300’s and 600’s were in the programme. I know you helped in the making of the DVD’s was this example aimed at a 200m or 400m athlete.

If you’ll humor my opinion, it follows that the additional work might be warranted for general endurance reasons for certain athletes, albeit at a lesser intensity than the special endurance runs and by placing them at the end of the session, on the same day, you maintain workload compatibility with the day’s emphasis.

[ESTI]

@NumberTwo

I would not do a 60m hill workout for SE but rather lengthen them out to 120m or greater (stretching it to special endurance duration). By using a 60m hill, athletes will tend to sprint at a higher intensity and get it over with within their alactic requirements. Over 120m, the athletes will relax more and satisfy the energy system requirements you are looking for. I would either use a 30m hill for acceleration work, or move it out to 120m for SE work. However, if all you have is 60m of hill, you would have to rush them back down the hill and cluster the sets (i.e. such as in a split run situation for SE).

I’ve experimented with KK’s split run hill workouts used in his GPP. As you mentioned, one can jog down and back up (i.e. KK), and can also sprint up, jog half way down, sprint up (and versions like that). KK Mentioned this in the Threshold thread on page 67,984. Nonetheless, there are many options to obtain the end result.

[NumberTwo]

@PhilG

Hi RB, if you get the chance to look at the Strength DVD Series, Charlie gives an insight into the use of depletion press ups.

Number Two, in the Edmonton series graphs, Charlie has a sample L-S programme where he includes Running A’s after the 2 Special Endurance sessions. As I understand it was not an actual programme used for any particular athlete but why include strength endurance units when 300’s and 600’s were in the programme. I know you helped in the making of the DVD’s was this example aimed at a 200m or 400m athlete.

Strength endurance drills, much like power speed drills and speed work, isolate a specific quality of special endurance runs (i.e. hip flexor strength, postural integrity, elasticity) and allow you to do more work without taxing the organism in the manner that would result from doing more 300’s and 600’s. Think of Strength Endurance-to-Special Endurance as EMS is to Maximal Strength Training. Supportive and complimentary, but not redundantly destructive.

[John]

@sady

I assume you have the bar on the shoulders, I isolated and used the seated calf raise. guess the answer is yes but the first time I could not walk for 3 days

no weight, unsupported, single leg for high reps

[sady]

@John

no weight, unsupported, single leg for high reps

Suggest the leg off the ground is in a position where the hip flexors come into play to stop overbalancing.

[PhilG]

@James_Smith

If you’ll humor my opinion, it follows that the additional work might be warranted for general endurance reasons for certain athletes, albeit at a lesser intensity than the special endurance runs and by placing them at the end of the session, on the same day, you maintain workload compatibility with the day’s emphasis.

James, your opinion is always welcome, I have used running A’s over 30-40m after speed endurance/special endurance reps. When the weather has permitted I have also used them on grass with high skips as a session on its own.

[PhilG]

@NumberTwo

Strength endurance drills, much like power speed drills and speed work, isolate a specific quality of special endurance runs (i.e. hip flexor strength, postural integrity, elasticity) and allow you to do more work without taxing the organism in the manner that would result from doing more 300’s and 600’s. Think of Strength Endurance-to-Special Endurance as EMS is to Maximal Strength Training. Supportive and complimentary, but not redundantly destructive.

Thanks number two, I get where your coming from, would you advocate their use if the athlete has reasonable technique but is still struggling a bit to retain posture throughout longer reps e.g. 300s. ?

[RB34]

Don’t use longer reps until the athlete can maintain proper posture throughout.

@PhilG

Thanks number two, I get where your coming from, would you advocate their use if the athlete has reasonable technique but is still struggling a bit to retain posture throughout longer reps e.g. 300s. ?

[PhilG]

@RB34

Don’t use longer reps until the athlete can maintain proper posture throughout.

Thanks RB, I’ll rephrase, what I meant was if say he/she could hold out okay on say 1x300m but the 2nd rep becomes a bit of a struggle technically, could running A;s after 1x300m be a way to help improve technical endurance to be able to manage 2x300m with good technique, over a period of time of course. Or should it just be a matter of increasing the length of the 2nd rep in line with technical ability.

[James_Smith]

@PhilG

Thanks RB, I’ll rephrase, what I meant was if say he/she could hold out okay on say 1x300m but the 2nd rep becomes a bit of a struggle technically, could running A;s after 1x300m be a way to help improve technical endurance to be able to manage 2x300m with good technique, over a period of time of course. Or should it just be a matter of increasing the length of the 2nd rep in line with technical ability.

In regards to the question of the Running A’s serving as a substitute for the special endurance, my view is that this is a far less optimal alternative in comparison to a split run. If the second rep of a 300m is not in the cards then go for 150 + 150, or 200 + 100 or what have you in order that the biodynamic activity is still the run yet the split aspect will provide for higher quality for those athletes who do not yet possess the special work capacity to perform the 300m repeats.

[PhilG]

Thanks James, I think I will still use the running A’s but as an addition to hill runs on grass that I have in mind for GPP 1 and early part of SPP1. Rather than continue to hijack this thread I will start a thread on the speed endurance issues elswhere.

[James_Smith]

@PhilG

Thanks James, I think I will still use the running A’s but as an addition to hill runs on grass that I have in mind for GPP 1 and early part of SPP1. Rather than continue to hijack this thread I will start a thread on the speed endurance issues elswhere.

Sure, just keep in mind that the running A’s are not a special endurance activity; but rather a strength endurance activity

[PhilG]

Hi James, thanks, no danger of me confusing the two activity’s, just exploring ways to improve the ability to maintain posture throughout longer reps without putting the athlete under too much pressure (see Number Two’s comments earlier).

[Actuary400m]

I did Running As for the first time last week and am surprised at how sore I’ve been since. I did a split-rep special endurance session on Wednesday, which was modeled from the SE workouts in Ben’s 1987 template (repeats of 60m). Looking to get more strength endurance work (I live in WI), I decided to follow the speed work with Running As; therefore, I reduced the total volume to account for the new element. I did 4x30m (4 sets of 18 seconds). While most of the soreness was throughout the hips and groin at first, my hamstrings are still a bit sore 4 days later. I know that introducing a new element of training can do such a thing, but this is a bit more than expected. Anyone else notice this when first trying Strength Endurance work? Should I cut down to only 2 or 3 reps this week? Tomorrow will be my first speed day since Wednesday, so we’ll see how I feel when back on the track.

[RB34]

4 sets could be too much and 18sec is too short. Charlie recommended about 45sec per set (30m), I would probably start at 2sets and increase sets slowly. For most normal people I would keep the sets fairly low or drop the A’s all together.

@Actuary400m

I did Running As for the first time last week and am surprised at how sore I’ve been since. I did a split-rep special endurance session on Wednesday, which was modeled from the SE workouts in Ben’s 1987 template (repeats of 60m). Looking to get more strength endurance work (I live in WI), I decided to follow the speed work with Running As; therefore, I reduced the total volume to account for the new element. I did 4x30m (4 sets of 18 seconds). While most of the soreness was throughout the hips and groin at first, my hamstrings are still a bit sore 4 days later. I know that introducing a new element of training can do such a thing, but this is a bit more than expected. Anyone else notice this when first trying Strength Endurance work? Should I cut down to only 2 or 3 reps this week? Tomorrow will be my first speed day since Wednesday, so we’ll see how I feel when back on the track.

[Actuary400m]

@RB34

4 sets could be too much and 18sec is too short. Charlie recommended about 45sec per set (30m), I would probably start at 2sets and increase sets slowly. For most normal people I would keep the sets fairly low or drop the A’s all together.

I read somewhere (either in this thread or another) that the “walking pace” equates to about 30 seconds per 50m. Therefore, I determined 18 seconds was the appropriate duration for 30m Running A’s (30/50 x 30 sec = 18 sec).

I’m just looking to get some muscular endurance work in while stuck indoors on a tight 160m track. My PBs are 10.88, 21.94, and 49.79, so I could definitely use some work on the endurance end. I’ll go with 2 reps this week and take it from there.