But is it a real fact or is it merely an opinion?
What is an optimal neural sequence in a world full of dynamics? I guess it’s more about neural problem solving on the fly. What becomes important is thus the ability to exert force in those mechanical arrangements one find himself to be in, i.e. being able to adapt, adjust and produce force – heels up or down or wherever.
“Different” does not mean “adverse” any more than “correct” means “optimal”.
i have heard a lot of stories, and perhaps the one i remember the most is,
a 1500m swimmer from Australia got the world record, yet the timing system stuffed so he was not awarded the record. doe, but it gets better. he was from a regional town, and some top notch coach looked at him, his style and said, gee wizz, this boy is fast for somebody with a terrable stroke! if i coached him, he will blow away the world record by miles. So, the swimmer went with the perfectionist coach.
his style went from medioca to perfect withing 12mnths. But guess what. That swimmer never swam a fast race again!! With all the Perfect arm placements, perfection doesnt always fit the mold. So long as the actuall swimming merchanics were in place, this swimmer should not have changed a thing. It worked for him.
So go figure.
actually it is fact and not opinon simply because plasticity in the system has litle effect on the feedforward system, the system used in all balistic athletics. motor patterns in the feedforward system cant be changed once initiated this is why it is important to ingrain the proper motor patterns during training so the body will respond properly in competition.
Perhaps being a pain in your butt, but I have to agree and disagree with you at the same time 
We ingrain proper motor patterns by sprinting – repetitions and volume in sprint training will greatly overwhelm any motor pattern learning in the gym (including squats). Hence it’s the proper motor pattern from sprint training that we bring to the competition, so that we respond properly there. I kind of disagree with you from the perspective of the “pragmatic whole picture”. What we look for in the gym is strength – the “correct” motor pattern in the squat is of much lesser concern.
Yet I agree with you that it would perhaps be better if one could achieve the whole range of motion effortlessly, but not to the point that it becomes “adverse” if heels are slightly elevated (gains in strength will overwrite such notion from the perspective of priority). Such a steep turnaround – from being beneficial to adverse – because of a slight elevation is highly questionable I think. We have to be pragmatic and prioritise. There are still great benefits found from the squat, especially if small elevation help in keeping good form and help you to progressively increase load without loosing form. Squat is still good, with heels up or down – perhaps slightly better with heels down (might not make a difference in the end however).
I still think it’s a matter of opinion rather than a fact when one looks at the overall picture.
Ok guys enough is enough. You’re both right.
keep all implements away from feet…
ciao
If you read Korfist’s article, “Top 8 Tricks for an Explosive Start” at www.inno-sport.net, he says he likes to do squats with the heels off the ground. I take it that he means to keep the heels off the ground w/o plates or anything, just simply staying on your toes. I can’t help to think the instability that would cause and why would you want to strengthen plantar flexion in such a manner?
dorry i dont take anything from that site seriously.
to me a squat is more than a squat. a squat is a way to train or moreover to express proper biomechanics. at which joint angle can a given muscle i a balistic sequence express the largest possible force. this is the transfer to athletics. will your muscels turn on when they should, when it is most adventageous, at the right joint angle, and without interference from opposing muscle groups.
What do you mean - keep one heel up and one heel down?
That is fine theoretically but the transfer to the real world is not exact, for example why would anyone do full squats based on that logic James, since the exact point at which the forces change varies even from athlete to athlete, not to mention stages in a race?
biomechanically there is a most advenatgeous joint postion and within the joint postion the most advantegeous motor control patterns. this is the same for all healthy people. para-olympics and special olympic athletes reach the same joint angles as elite sprinters. is it exactly the same in everybody ofcourse not but there is always 1 and only 1 biomechanical postion that is most adventageous.
If you “need” to raise it to do the exercise do so if not then do it without. It’s pretty simple.
If you can’t do it without raise the heel slightly you’re better off raising it slightly rather than not doing squats at all.
I was joking man!
(I posted my response back there long ago!)
Here’s a question - if your not supposed to squat with a heal why are the SAFE squat shoes made with a heal? I mean those are regarded by many as the best squat shoe made - so why do they have a heal?
same reason why people stil lthink you need to stretch. same reason football coaches have their athletes doing laps instead of sprints. same reason people think bodybuilding is a valid form of athletic training. misinformation.
have you been reading the latest version of Mens Health? or Weider?
no, have you?
Boys, let the temperature drop a little 
James, I understand your point of departure and I respect that.
Here is a question to all of you: IF the problem (getting full range of movement) is NOT in soft tissue like the achilles tendon or calf muscles, but in the joint itself. How would one train to gain a better flexibility there?
A gradual drop of elevation is already mentioned, but is there other ways - keeping in mind that we don’t want to loosen tendons and muscles too much. I’m particularly referring to people with “abnormal” conditions in the ankle joint (due to a variety of reasons like massive rebuild of the ankle joint through surgery etc.). What are your favourite exercises?
Lorein,
IMO if it’s not possible to get into the proper squat position its not possible, so other ‘squat-type’ exercises have to be used. After all the squat is only one exercise.