Speed Volume

[system]

I am not aware of any products where Charlie directly lays out an SPP2. The SPP download is great, but it doesn’t give a plan or formulation the way the Vancouver video does. The Vancouver video has lots of information in addition to the plan(s).

[Charlie_Francis]

@fogelson

I am not aware of any products where Charlie directly lays out an SPP2. The SPP download is great, but it doesn’t give a plan or formulation the way the Vancouver video does. The Vancouver video has lots of information in addition to the plan(s).

The SPP lecture series helps you address the planning.

[syrus2001]

@fogelson

I’ll post more later, but the consensus of most people on the forum is the 2000m of short speed is WAAAAAY too much for mere mortals who do not have the therapy budgets and access that Charlie’s athletes have, in addition to the stress of any other obligations. Many people have adapted it though with a ride range of volumes (I have seen anywhere from 600-1500 or so a week) with great success. 2000 though is a bit out there for most of us.

Does it matter if this 2000m of speed work is really 1200m of actual speed (60m, FEF, EFE, fly’s) and 800m of accelerations (blocks, push up starts, sled pulls). Would that be considered 2000m/wk of speed work, or 1200m?

[Charlie_Francis]

@syrus2001

Does it matter if this 2000m of speed work is really 1200m of actual speed (60m, FEF, EFE, fly’s) and 800m of accelerations (blocks, push up starts, sled pulls). Would that be considered 2000m/wk of speed work, or 1200m?

It would all count

[system]

I include accelerations when I mention the lower volumes. I believe what Charlie says about the volumes his guys and gals did, I just don’t know of anybody who has been able to replicate it because they haven’t had the same circumstances. There are some elite coaches and extremely high level college coaches who have also mentioned having significantly lower volumes.

[syrus2001]

I see. This helps out a lot guys thanks!

My first year I had speed volumes of roughly 600m/wk, with some decent success. Progress stalled in my second year with similar volumes. The following outdoors, I had arranged things a little oddly, and had only included roughly half of that speed volume.Performance suffered as a consequence. Now I’m focusing on more quality work in the hopes of improving.

I’m probably looking at 1000m/wk now, with some more sensible progressions.

[syrus2001]

I plan on getting Van.04 download fairly soon before the start of my season.

I’ve worked out a progression of acceleration and speed that will be as high as 500m/day and as low as 300m/day. With a decreasing emphasis on acceleration and increasing emphasis on speed. Working speed 3x/wk.

[100m001]

@syrus2001

Awesome, thanks for the responses!

Which download would address the SPP of a 60m indoor season with a progression to 100m outdoor? I was thinking Van04 would be good. Does this include a short to long 100m plan?

Yea, that’s a good question. As for myself I want to see what charlies programs look like in detail over a year so I can study it.

I understand the esoteric concepts as far as not getting away from strength training/speed work but how to exactly induce specific demands on the body over period of time is what I’m fighting with my own mind to understand.

Just so happens I got a copy of Gerald Mach’s book that is helping to shed some light as there are programs that are laid out in the final chapters.

[adonail]

As for myself I want to see what charlies programs look like in detail over a year so I can study it.

X2

[James_Smith]

As a practicing coach and strong supporter of Charlie’s work I would advise a precautionary note with respect to any urgency one has in seeing an annual plan.

As Charlie has stated, entire training programs are often more reflective of history then philosophy.

I have found this to be true across a great number of methodological approaches.

What is already available are blueprints of what a sprinter would execute according to a CFTS program short to long or long to short.

This is what I perceive to be the most beneficial resource.

A complete sprint program can only responsibly be written for a specific individual. Beyond that, for the sake of demonstrating, it would have to be generalized to the point of what is already presented in various materials of Charlie’s.

Speaking for myself, I have had requests to see how I outline an annual cycle for my American footballers. There is always great reservation on my end to do so because I’m not sure that words can strongly enough convey to the reader that training programs don’t exist in a vacuum.

Meaning, they are a snapshot, even if it’s an entire annual plan, because all the preparation that comes before it, through previous months and years, is what sets the stage for what you see on paper.

In my experience I’ve seen a tendency for readers to be too quick to copy and past the programs of others into their own training or that of their athletes. While gains over the short term are generally observed, particularly regarding a change in programming for lower qualified athletes, the uncertainty down the line is typically sure to follow.

Again as a supporter of Charlie’s it is my recommendation to closely scrutinize the materials he has already made available in order that the methodological approach becomes familiar. From here, the reader is then equipped to integrate this information in a practical sense into the training of sprinters and numerous other speed-power athletes.

I state this as someone who has faithfully been studying Charlie’s work since 02/03 and never seen an annual plan laid out in any more detail then an outline.

[adonail]

thank you james,

I understand that a general program, even If made by charlie himself doesn’t make It perfect for everyone.

At the very start, a general plan Is a great place to start from. After that experience bring adaptation and more deep understanding that can unable us to adapt to every circumstances.

Unfortunately, my own understanding of speed periodization is at is beginning and a general plan would be a great help.

Remind me of the good old days when I did the exact Ian King weight training programs. I didn’t knew better at the time. Now, I go intuitively and get much better results, but those programs where a big help back then, when I didn’t knew enough for my own needs.

[Charlie_Francis]

@adonail

thank you james,

I understand that a general program, even If made by charlie himself doesn’t make It perfect for everyone.

At the very start, a general plan Is a great place to start from. After that experience bring adaptation and more deep understanding that can unable us to adapt to every circumstances.

Unfortunately, my own understanding of speed periodization is at is beginning and a general plan would be a great help.

Remind me of the good old days when I did the exact Ian King weight training programs. I didn’t knew better at the time. Now, I go intuitively and get much better results, but those programs where a big help back then, when I didn’t knew enough for my own needs.

I urge you to get the SPP lecture series to understand how to map out a plan for your specific needs and competition schedule. My plans are interesting to allow you to see a solution to the scheduling into world championships at the world record level but are not directly applicable to all situations. you need the tools to work with and I tried to provide them with the SPP Lectures.

[adonail]

@Charlie_Francis

I urge you to get the SPP lecture series to understand how to map out a plan for your specific needs and competition schedule. My plans are interesting to allow you to see a solution to the scheduling into world championships at the world record level but are not directly applicable to all situations. you need the tools to work with and I tried to provide them with the SPP Lectures.

Thanks, could you tell me exactly are we talking about this one?
http://www.charliefrancis.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=48

[syrus2001]

I believe they are

[100m001]

@adonail

At the very start, a general plan Is a great place to start from. After that experience bring adaptation and more deep understanding that can unable us to adapt to every circumstances.

Unfortunately, my own understanding of speed personalization is at is beginning and a general plan would be a great help.

Well said and I completely agree.

[Charlie_Francis]

@adonail

Thanks, could you tell me exactly are we talking about this one?
http://www.charliefrancis.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=48

that’s what you’re looking for

[100m001]

@James_Smith

As a practicing coach and strong supporter of Charlie’s work I would advise a precautionary note with respect to any urgency one has in seeing an annual plan.

As Charlie has stated, entire training programs are often more reflective of history then philosophy.

I have found this to be true across a great number of methodological approaches.

What is already available are blueprints of what a sprinter would execute according to a CFTS program short to long or long to short.

This is what I perceive to be the most beneficial resource.

A complete sprint program can only responsibly be written for a specific individual. Beyond that, for the sake of demonstrating, it would have to be generalized to the point of what is already presented in various materials of Charlie’s.

Speaking for myself, I have had requests to see how I outline an annual cycle for my American footballers. There is always great reservation on my end to do so because I’m not sure that words can strongly enough convey to the reader that training programs don’t exist in a vacuum.

Meaning, they are a snapshot, even if it’s an entire annual plan, because all the preparation that comes before it, through previous months and years, is what sets the stage for what you see on paper.

In my experience I’ve seen a tendency for readers to be too quick to copy and past the programs of others into their own training or that of their athletes. While gains over the short term are generally observed, particularly regarding a change in programming for lower qualified athletes, the uncertainty down the line is typically sure to follow.

Again as a supporter of Charlie’s it is my recommendation to closely scrutinize the materials he has already made available in order that the methodological approach becomes familiar. From here, the reader is then equipped to integrate this information in a practical sense into the training of sprinters and numerous other speed-power athletes.

I state this as someone who has faithfully been studying Charlie’s work since 02/03 and never seen an annual plan laid out in any more detail then an outline.

Good post James thanks. I guess for me the main frustration is that I’m just a self coached athlete who runs a small business and I don’t have much time to figure things out on my own.

I have about 4-5 good years left to run and to possibly make it pro then my time is over. I don’t care to become famous our rich I just want to end my running career with good PRs and at least make it to the Olympic trials in 2012 (end of world date lol). If I felt as though I did not have the talent I would not have put myself though a decade of sacrifice and discomfort.

Anyhow, I do consider myself lucky however because I came across charlie methods before I got too old or before I cashed in my chips so at least I can go to the grave in peace knowing that I gave myself the best possible chance to succeed.

Not to many people can say that, because when I look around, many people give up on there dreams very early in game.

[James_Smith]

@100m001

Good post James thanks. I guess for me the main frustration is that I’m just a self coached athlete who runs a small business and I don’t have much time to figure things out on my own.

I have about 4-5 good years left to run and to possibly make it pro then my time is over. I don’t care to become famous our rich I just want to end my running career with good PRs and at least make it to the Olympic trials in 2012 (end of world date lol). If I felt as though I did not have the talent I would not have put myself though a decade of sacrifice and discomfort.

Anyhow, I do consider myself lucky however because I came across charlie methods before I got too old or before I cashed in my chips so at least I can go to the grave in peace knowing that I gave myself the best possible chance to succeed.

Not to many people can say that, because when I look around, many people give up on there dreams very early in game.

I appreciate your situation.

I’m not sure that I can effectively put into words my own frustration with the coaching industry. One example being the lack of, according to my definition, qualified coaches out there.

I’m not looking for an argument with that statement. It’s my professional opinion.

It’s disappointing to me, for instance, that you are without a coach.

I’ve had the same discussion with RB34.

As far as I’m concerned, athletic potential that goes untapped due to a lack of accessible and qualified coaching is a travesty.

[ESTI]

Start off easy and see how things progress. You should see nice improvement after the first few weeks. Keep volume low at first. It goes a long way. I had a baseball guy drop his 60 times by over 0.2 doing 1 speed workout a week, with workouts similar to posted earlier. It’s not as hard as you may think at your level.

[nycjay01]

@Charlie_Francis

This is more than a volume question.
1: If a 400m runner uses the right series of meets, his/her times can drop dramatically BUT if that volume is made up of too many 400s, the performance will plateau quickly as you will have traded short term gains in event specific SE for pure speed development.
2: Similar Volumes, even made up of the same type of runs, can have vastly different effects and demands.
Examples abound but here’s a simple one:
2 x 300m SE with complete recovery could be enhanced for a beginner by doing them as split-runs, so 300m could be done as 5 x 60m as either turn-arounds or as walk-back recoveries (max 90sec). If done that way and paced for the best cumulative average, the 2 x (5 x 60) session will NOT have anywhere near the CNS effect of, say 3 x (3 x 60) with 4 min between runs and 12 min between sets, although, obviously, it would be higher than the 2 x 300 because of the immediate ability to sustain a higher rate.
3: As for the “Energy Envelope”, see Speed Trap and/or the first Forum Review for an extensive discussion.
4: The HS season improvements would have a big CNS demand so a 10 to 14 day period of extensive tempo only, possibly followed by a few weeks of slightly higher speed volumes but lesser intensity might keep the progress going.
This is highly individual and you have to use your personal experience to see what keeps the progress going.

If someone were to use the split runs as you have it here (2 sets of 5x60m) would they comeback to the longer runs later in the season? Im looking at my vanc 04 graph and the spec. end 1 graph finishes the 12 week spp with 150s Sorry to but in this discussion but Im trying to think of a way to prgress 60m split runs for endurance since the track that I will have access to is a rectangular mondo track (a real pain in the ass or achillies in my case!!!)

Thanks