our s/c coaches and track coaches fight all the time about the stuff we do…
right now (september) we are in our second week of reps of 3 for 4 sets. he doesnt believe in anything over 3 reps (our first meet isnt until janurary)
we are doing db snatches, hang cleans, and power jerks…reps of 3 of course and then we do half squats NOT FULL and front squats and benching…
and we always finish our workouts with some cute isolation exercises like high knee hip extensions (where u have a band around ur ankle) or swiss ball hamstring isos
our coach goes nutz cuz we are in our GPP and we shoudl be doing higher reps oh well, and we get enough hip stuff through the hurdle drills we do every for warmups
i guess id rather do what im doing than HITT…count my blessings
To answer number 3 in part, one of the things (s)HIT guys avoid is testing so no one truly knows how effective or rather ineffective the program really is. Granted the players feel like crap with all the work done to failure but there are no tangible numbers, evidence of what is going on or what the program is not doing for the positive development of the athletes. Therefore, the people in a position of power(a.d.'s and head coaches)who probably could not spot a good program vs. a bad program in the first place have even less reason to axe the coach since there is no proof either way(save the general feeling of squandering of talent they probably attribute to other aspects of the overall program) of just how deconditioned the athletes are becoming.
When those athletes get to the combines or pro timing days they, with the exception of those who leave the program in January to work with speed/strength coaches, perform very poorly generally speaking. When players come into the program running 4.4’s in a number of high school combines run 2 to 3 tenths slower 3-5 years later you know you have serious problems. Meanwhile Iowa(though having a rough go of it so far this year) is getting kids who on average are probably 3 star rated players(on 5 scale) sends a number of guys to the combines and they perform very well. They get guys running 4.6 to 4.7 coming in to go 4.4 to 4.5 when they leave. Michigan’s guys go in the opposite direction. Chris Doyle at Iowa, is in my opinion, one of the best s and c coaches in college football.
Charlie, I’ve looked on the ncaa site and though I found some stats on injury rates I could not find anything on team injury rates. Any ideas? I really want to find those stats to continue an ongoing arguement I am having with somebody re:HIT.
Coaches and players are reluctant to recognize that intrinsic factors that are responsible for injuries. Most, in fact attribute injury due to being unlucky.
HIT coach: “We’ve had a unlucky season again this season; next season our luck will change”
Hey moron it will change if you change your damm program - BAD training.
I don’t know where they came from but a kid from Michigan State (sHIT) showed them to me when MS was number one in injuries! (I think it was from Sports Illustrated but this was several yrs ago and I wasn’t in need of further info to know the program was shit on a stick) He personally worked very hard at this “program” and went from 24 reps at 225 in the bench to 11 after one year. I personally find it hard to believe these HIT guys are that stupid. After all, the fact that they’re still here against a mountain of evidence indicates a defence that would have impressed Johnny Cochrane.
I can only suppose that these sHITheads, with nothing to plan or supervise, collect their pay for doing nothing and devote the free time to pursuing another job from their cubicle where they hang out instead of the gym (bookie maybe?)
I’ll have to see if I can find it-not that I doubt the stats but I want to wave them in someone’s face-in a friendly kind of way of course! By the way much in interest in this thread from a fan forum today-www.the wolverine.com. People interested in the discussion regarding the blasting of HIT, etc. and your article.
I’m awful at being able to do this so I’ll just give directions-pretty simple. Go to www.thewolverine.com click on messageboards on the left side of the page and then click on the football forum. Right now the thread is just a bit down from the top of page 3-I’m ncmaize by the way. Good luck.
The Penn State forum is all over the HIT debate too…they feel now that they are 4-0 that HIT isn’t a problem. Get serious. I tried talking sense to some fans before, but it never works. And i am probably the biggest PSU fan out there.
There’s the link…i think it is on page 2 of the forum by now. I’m sure they would love to hear Charlie’s input seeing that they won’t listen to anyone else.
Yea but who has Penn St defeated…we’ll see how fast their young wide-outs are in a year or two.
Also there track program hasn’t produced anyone in a while (cept Connie Moore) despite some excellent recruits (#1 long jumper in nation out of HS for example). Their sprints/jumps coach seems like a sharp guy but I don’t know if he has the final say on everything regarding his kids.
Going back to the football end, we’ll see how Knowledge Timmons (10.47w) pans out in football and track.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how DWill and JK turn out in a few years. They were both legit sub 4.4 guys entering school. Same with Timmons. Is he going to run track there also? Mortac, i’m sure you know more about the track program there than i do…how do they train?
It’s funny…their sprint coach has a PhD in biomech and his PhD prof was Zatsiorsky. He said he ran at Cincinatti for undergrad and they did mostly speed work year round…he ran like 10.7 and jumped high 24’ there. He said he came to PSU for grad school and they made him do a ton of intensive tempo especially (300 up to 600) in the fall & winter. At PSU he ended up running like 10.29 and jumping around 26’. So obviously he’s a fan of the longer intensive tempo. I don’t really know anything about their lifting program.
That’s all I know for sure. I haven’t talked to the guy in a little while. Sorry I can’t offer more. I could ask him if you really wanna know.
I don’t know about JK man. When watching him on film, he flies and one is the quickest ever (he averaged a touchdown a carry his senior year, having had 8 carries, 7 touchdowns, 350+ yards in one game for example). On the track, he didn’t break 11 his junior year (only ran a few meets before getting injured anchoring a relay) and I think only once the year before that. He is fast as hell, but he definitely picked the right sport for his abilities IMO.
You are going through the same thing I sometimes do with fellow UM fans. I just have to laugh at those who defend HIT-most likely they know absolutely nothing about strength and conditioning or they would not defend something like it. People who defend HIT usually have no exercise science or sport coaching background. Its philosophy is not based upon reason or sound methods and I contend that it sets up potentially higher injury rates.
Of course it sets up higher injury rates. Being weak in football is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
What kind of debate can there be about this? What can you say about a training method, in the year 2005, that has no plan, no progression, and NO MAXIMUM STRENGTH PHASE EVER?
And the purveyers of this sHIT continue to find an audience!
WTF!
To preface, I live in Pennsylvania and we had as our S&C coach this summer the guy from a certain very well known university (mentioned in this thread) and now a good pro team.
My highschool team last year had over 25 season ending injuries (mostly knees and ankles, but shoulders as well) from not only a HIT program, but a very high volume intensive tempo program! People should be tried in court for crap like that.
It’s better this year (only hit and a half speed half intensive tempo conditioning program), with a number of around 7 or 8 season ending injuries so far, including 4 stress fractures (2 back, 1 foot, 1 arm), 2 torn labrums, 1 dislocated shoulder (he had a torn labrum in his other shoulder), 1 ACL tear (along with a stress fracture in arm), 1 grade 3 ACL strain, nerve damage in a shoulder, and more (the usual grade 2 and 3 ankle sprains and such). This is an improvement, which is sad! So much for HIT training.
Charlie, i am as spellbound by this whole thing as you are. It is amazing that HIT still exists with all the research that points against it. But i guess that is what you get when athletic directors and sports coaches run the hiring process for a new S&C coach. What do they know that qualifies them to hire the most competent person? All the guy has to do is talk like a used car salesman telling them just what they want to hear and he is in. Forget hiring someone who runs a sound training program, just someone who yells a lot and makes it look as if the athletes are training hard. It is amazing. Something needs to change.
What kind of debate can there be about this? What can you say about a training method, in the year 2005, that has no plan, no progression, and NO MAXIMUM STRENGTH PHASE EVER?
And the purveyers of this sHIT continue to find an audience!
One of the best (dramatic) clinics I have every attended was the Tampa Bay Buccaneer S and C seminar about 5 years ago. Not only did they provide a shitty lunch of coke and hotdogs, but brainwashed the entire high school area into thinking two sets of hammer strength exercises was the path to heaven! Quotes like…
“Squats break down the spine- do leg extensions.”
“Creatine causes cramps so we don’t use it”
“Draft speed”
“plyos don’t work”
“Olympic lifts cause injuries and don’t improve power”
After the seminar someone asked me if I agreed and explained that their system keeps many private trainers in business.
HIT is a cult and since everyone does the same thing they are very similar to a union. Need a job? Go to a HIT guy and they will hire you if you are a HIT guy. Also HIT seems to please many lazy athletes and that area keeps them in business.