Who cares. If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying - Right??
I personally hope the topic of banned substances stays banned. I fear discussion of drugs would take over the great training discussions that always happen on here. I would hate to see it turn into a haven for future
Victor Conte’s to hook up with coaches and athletes.
A partner of mine (esti and speedcoach met him) ran track in the 80’s and he told me all kinds of horror steroid stories. He told me 1 of his teammates was taking them and the end result was his child was born without thumbs. He also told me he saw guys from other countries take them in front of him and offer some to him. He said oh no I like my liver and kidneys!
I didn’t know roids were bad for liver and kidneys.?
Hey guys,
I think we should respect Charlie’s wishes with regard to discussion of banned substances. I agree that even casual mention can quickly cause things to degenerate!
agree. As much as I am at times frustrated at things like news items being a no go this thread, which started off as that, has quickly gone off track.
Yes - it is unfortunate that people did not understand or respect the intent of the original postings.
Moving forward since Charlie is gone, I strongly suggest that the community act as a watchdog to his work. We all know Charlie was ripped off in the past, but my fear is that no organized way of protecting his valuable insights. Derek has helped foster great charts and graphs to make the Francis concepts come alive through great visuals. My concern is that his work that is not organized in a product will be ripped off in the future from the internet gurus.
http://forums.jpfitness.com/personal-trainers-issues/33282-another-guru-plagiarist-case-9.html
Ian King is still living, imagine the swarm of people looking to capitalize on Charlie’s material?
If we want to make an impact in creating a history I think a documentary of some sort will help preserve Coach Francis for others to learn from. Also anyone under his mentorship should show how his ideas expand and are extrapolated now with the new generation of coaches.
Back on track.
Lance Press Conference Transcript
Lance press conference video [part 1][part 2]
Landis - Why he wanted to clear his conscience (audio)
Statement from WADA President on Floyd Landis Allegations
Radio interview with Paul Kimmage & Pat Mcquad
Rider Reactions/Reports
[Greg Lemond] [Tom Zirbel] [Betsy Andreau]
These are ones that have direct factual info or relevant comments from leading cyclists.
Why Landis wants to clear the air: BOOK DEAL!
That’s my guess anyhow.
On the topic of hypocrisy, one thing that has always amused and infuriated me at the same time is that on the one hand Charlie was officially a pariah in the coaching world, and yet on the other hand I can’t think of another coach in history who has had so many people falsely attempt to take credit for his work. How many “coaches” has Ben allegedly had?
Not many of you may know this, but Charlie told me stories of how he had to sit down with coaches in the 1980’s to show them how he structured workouts for his athletes who went to NCAA schools. The coaches were not having success and Charlie had to articulate the progressions. This also occurred with one of the coaches who took over Ben’s training post 1988. Of course, none of these coaches would ever admit Charlie’s help and influence.
- Dan Pfaff
- Gary Winkler
- Loren Seagrave
You heard it here. Fat chance any of these guys would give Charlie credit. This information was passed to me privately. Charlie had too much class to public air this information for his own personal gain or gratification. However, I feel that all of you should know the truth.
I would think it smart on their part to get a tutorial on what athletes they may be inheriting had been doing.
Some of those guys are much classier than others make them out to be and would definitely give credit where credit is due. At least one of them tutored under Tellez who is arguably just as influential and successful as Charlie.
In reality there is not much chance of Charlie’s mark not being heard, noticed, or seen. He is just too successful, well known and in reality well respected to have it shake out otherwise.
Wasn’t it Stephen Francis who had Charlie’s book in hand at an interview and said something to the affect of “this is pretty much what I follow”?
Any stories about Trevor or Stephen Francis, Glen Mills, John Smith giving Charlie a ring?
It was not like that in any of these cases. The athletes were not responding to the new training programs under these coaches. Charlie was asked to help straighten out the training and fix the problems. He did. Success ensued.
I can vividly remember Charlie saying things like, “How the hell did this athlete get so messed up? When they left me, they were running perfectly well.”
There are more details, but I do not think it is appropriate to dig up skeletons.
That’s why I admire Al Vermeil for always being very vocal about Charlie’s influence on him and giving credit where credit is due.
This is absolutely true. I know for a fact that Al makes every effort in his seminars, workshops and presentations to give Charlie credit for the knowledge he has passed on to Al. In my most recent conference, Al was referencing Charlie and imploring people to study Charlie’s materials. I know in the past, Al was adamant in telling people that they needed to pay the money and go visit Charlie in Toronto. Only a handful of people actually took Al’s advice. Very sad.
Al Vermeil, himself, should be recognized as being a true leader in the field of strength and conditioning. He is never too big to admit that he is the product of those he surrounded himself with. I am fortunate to have had Al provide me with video footage of him meeting with people such as Charlie Francis, Mel Siff, Carmelo Bosco, Zatsiorsky, Dragomir Cirosalin and many more. At the age of 65, he continues to be an enthusiastic student of the field of strength and conditioning. I wish I had half the energy and enthusiasm he has.
I actually worked at a track camp in New York State about 8-9 years ago with Loren Seagrave and during one of his lectures to the athletes he did acknowledge some of Charlie’s influence on his own program. Granted that is not exactly a wide-spread public forum but he did mention Charlie. It was mostly high school athletes, a few college athletes and various coaches.
In particular he mentioned Charlie’s set-up of a of tempo session as being one he used.
I was leaving a collegiate spring football game in which 2 of my athletes were playing and I recieved a call from him. I totally forgot I sent a email. Needless to say we talked about 15 min on his experience in the nfl, how bad alot of strength and conditioning coaches are today, how having a track background puts you (which alot of us have) light years ahead of the game (S&C), how track deserves more credit than its getting especially learning from guys like charlie francis, Tom tellez. He called certain S&C coaches (college and pro) F%$@%ing idiots! I wont say the names but alot of us know who they are.
I notice some definite similarities in Charlie and Dan’s schedules, especially on the periodization and microcycle level.
Not exactly the same but definite similarities.