K's 400m/800m 2015 HS Senior Year progression

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Hello Angela!

Nutrition has been very key in the past years, and at home it was followed throughout the year. Over the years, different vitamins (ZMA especially) and ‘Juicing’ with a low RPM auger style juicer really helped, especially during competition, as she seemed to lose a little extra excess weight and it gave her an energy boost and made her feel great. In the last couple years even added beet juice which gave her a big boost in xcountry her fresh/soph years in High School. Continued it during competition, working it in between other juicing… vegetable that is… and it seemed to help her finish in the 400m.

Throughout high school, so many things happened, that I had to try and change many things dietary and also creams/lotions/EMS pads for massage, due to allergic reactions and other health issues.
Freshman year diagnosed with Asthma, then diagnosis changed the following year to VCD (Vocal Chord Dysfunction), which her doctors were amazed she could even run, let alone compete. She had serious skin issues for about a year (anaphylaxis issues with unknown allergies) plus anaphylaxis to honey bee venom…of course has been carrying multiple EpiPens for the past 4 years. Junior year getting the bladder infection during winter indoor track, then Mono/anemia/thyroid issues the last part of the season (did not recover till late September, missed X country) then, the respiratory infection I mentioned above her senior year.
She took it easy this past summer, and I didn’t start her training until beginning of August, and kept it simple and somewhat lite, as she would be working with her new coach at the end of September and I just wanted to hit general fitness and let him train her how he wants.

Jumping forward to Christmas break… K came home for about a month, had a workout from her coach… but every couple days we would get 4-6" of snow and she was unable to run outside the whole 4 weeks home.
I didn’t worry too much, as we had these issues before, had various workouts she does in the basement, including bike workouts in case of inability to run outdoors.
I also did not want to interfere with her coach or with Keana’s newly found ‘independence’.

As vacation went by, I noticed her eating habits were quite bad… she was eating chocolates, hot cocoa, lots of bread multiple times each day (holiday candy, cookies/pasties etc.) which I should have not had in the house, but again, I just ‘mentioned’ she should not overindulge, but did not want to sound ‘bossy’.

Well, by the time she got back to school… and went to her 1st meet… she ran slower than she had since middle school! She had gained more than 15 pounds (she is 5’ tall) and had lost much fitness over Christmas break… I really felt stupid and knew I should have at least been more aggressive with helping her… but… it is what it is… another huge lesson learned.

Since, she has been doing extra workouts, has almost made it back to ‘normal’ weight of 115 lbs, which her coach would ‘like’ her down to 110, but only during X country was she ever able to stay at that weight… when she lifts weights and trains hard, she stays at around 115… so they are giving her multiple cardio workouts each week and she says it is working.

She says now that her speed is increasing and that she is now faster in the 200m than the other 200m runners and the coach wants her to train for 200m then go back to 400m later.

K has stopped eating at the school’s ‘food court’ as she said she overate and that there was very little in nutritional food to be found there. We have been send her meals/fruit/vegetables and she just eats a salad/fruit bowl once a day at the food court.

We started bringing her ground Hemp seed, Chia seed, Hemp milk, various dark leafy vegetables, spinach greens, carrots/cauliflower/broccoli/sweet potato etc.

What I am going to start doing tomorrow, is buying organic chicken breast, salmon and lean beef and fillet into 1/2" pieces, lightly barbeque on outside grill (not quite done) and put into separate meal size bags… then freeze.
Also getting plastic meal containers so she can put her meals together ahead of time and put in her fridge… we just delivered a nice little 3.1 cu. ft. refrigerator with separate 1 cubic ft. freezer with plenty of room for her meals.

I would really appreciate any help and suggestions for her on this subject, as I never had to worried about it before and did not foresee it as a problem until it … happened.

As far as regeneration… this has been very important in the past few years… we would use massage at least 2 times week (depending on where she was in her program/meets), used EMS extensively with massage and recovery, of course timing her lifting program with ems.
At the competitions, a couple hours after, she would have ice bath with warm/cold alternating shower little later. A lot I still needed to learn, for sure.

K wants to get back into the regular training this summer, and in the winter to make sure I keep her from making the same mistake again… I’m sure she has learned her lesson… she takes great pride in her running, but the “NEW” college experience, many, many new friends, so many activities and things to do on campus and in Seattle… as she came from a small town of less than 100,000 population… all the distractions were more than she let her self resist… she did not think ahead this time…but, as so many times before… another lesson learned. :slight_smile:

Angela and everyone, help and suggestions about this would be greatly appreciated… K is the first in the family to even go to college and this is new for all of us. And, please, feel free to ask questions.

I will try to come online more often and reply, have been out of town a lot lately.

Thanks for the support everyone! :slight_smile:

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It’s definitely very challenging to eat healthy when living alone or with a roommate that probably don’t share a similar diet. It’s really nice though that you’re able to provide her with meal containers. I definitely struggled with the campus food options myself and although I moved out of campus and cooked for myself, still wasn’t ideal. Most of my meat I had to freeze and vegetables weren’t fresh and limited in type because I couldn’t afford to get a variety of them and have most of them spoil.

If you have her eat the meals you send her at home and eat salad at school, that sounds pretty healthy to me.

BTW, would you say her loss of performance was more so due to weight gain or nutrition? For me, I used to be able to maintain my weight pretty easily with normal-quantity meals when I was mostly doing weight room training. However, when I started doing track workouts, pool workouts as well, I began to burn way too much calories and now even with larger meals and a lot of sweets and desert junks, still lost like 9 lbs and still having hard time maintaining it (meaning, if I eat just little less, my weight just drops…). I lost so much strength due to weight loss. I used to be able to bench 195 x10 and now I’m struggling with 155x10…

I’m wondering if me eating a little junk to help maintain my body weight and to help my soul would be all that bad for me as well

I know it sounds dumb, but when I eat out, 1 serving isn’t enough to let me maintain my body weight. I can’t eat 2 servings because that would be a bit too much and WAYYY too expensive.

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Diet :
I am not a huge fan of supplements but has she been prescribed any dietary changes/supplements for her anemia ? This is a case where supplementation may be justified.
The other thing I find has helped me is a simple protein shake after hard workouts.

Recovery :
Sleep is a great mechanism, but not always the easiest thing when you are a student.
Does K still have access to EMS, massage, ice baths through her college team ? If not that is a big loss and there is benefit in arranging some of this herself. Although possibly too expensive on a college budget.
Alternatively she could consider the recovery benefits of non-running tempo on the bike or in a pool.

Training :
I wonder if her training needs more specific focus. She appears to have mixed many different distances over the last year or so. Everything from 200m to XC. It`s fine to try everything but there comes a time when you reach jack of all trades master of none. Logical groupings are 200/400, 400/800 (although not really at elite level), 800 - XC.
She is getting multiple cardio workouts - why is her coach prescribing them when he wants her to focus on 200M ?

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Hello kwave,
It appears that each body is so different in how it reacts to training, nutrition and amount of food intake. Many of K’s team mates and friends in the past were like you and many struggle with weight even with eating less.

For K, when she was in 9th/10th grade and ran X country, she would drop to 110 lbs., her legs would be thinner but her body also lost the muscle tone. She would coment she didn’t feel ‘strong’ or fast.
Then, after X country, which, again, she only ran in 9th/10th grade… After 2 week break in November, she would start training for the track season. It always seemed strange, by the time her school track training started (march 1st) she would have gained another 5 lbs and be at or ‘normal’ 115 lbs, even though she did a more rigorous training program at home.

I would say her weight gain this past Fall/Winter was due to a lack of attention to what she was eating and then during winter break, when she was unable to run, she was slacking in her other workouts. I did not supervise or otherwise ensure she was training correctly, I ‘assumed’ she would follow what I had put together in the past.
She said at the food court, she over ate, ate mostly processed food, she said the first few months everything being new and so many distractions/temptations/influences and so much time spent in class/homework, that it was hard to focus. The pre-med program she is in is quite demanding.

Another factor is probably lack of sleep, as that can effect weight gain. With all the late homework, plus her 2 room mates are often up till 1am during the week. K says both her room mates nap during the day, are very quiet and polite, but it is still distracting.
Next year she will be in a much smaller/quieter dorm and only have 1 room mate.

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Hello oldbloke,

K’s anemia and thyroid issues were directly tied to her Mononucleosis infection, which was a very serious one. She does take an iron tablet every day as her ferritin levels drop very low if she doesn’t. After finding out she had Mono, I took her to a Hematologist for extensive blood work-ups and he also gave her multiple iron infusions. She has been taking iron supplements for years, and gets blood work-ups 2x each year to follow-up. This is common (low ferritin, not Mono) for women who train hard/often and also for those who run a lot. Her coach around last October asked her not to drink protein shakes as he wanted her to lose weight even back then when her weight was around 120, he felt it would help with weight loss.

Yes, sleep is an issue with K. She says her 2 room mates both nap during the day, then are up till 1am or so during the week. She says they are very quiet and polite, but them being up makes it distracting and harder to sleep. She has had issues in the past with getting enough sleep… that was a subject I have discussed with her as much as any. For awhile in high school she was pre-scribed Melatonin to help her sleep, as she was having trouble sleeping due to stress/issues at her school. Poor sleep habits can contribute to weight gain.

Her school does not have EMS and I need to discuss the ice bath question with her, as I am not sure what their recovery program is, if any? The EMS she has been getting for the past few years was at home, as I have a ‘SpeedCoach Plus’ EMS device/program from Derek Hansen. Over the years, this was used mostly for recovery, but last year used in tandem with weight training program with great success.
EMS professionally would not be affordable… even though she has both Academic/Athletic scholarships that cover most of the tuition, the remainder, plus living expenses still amounts to about $900 month, (very expensive private university) that is also beyond what we have… but borrowing the difference as most do.
Thank you for the suggestion of pool/bike recovery… I will bring that up to her and discuss what recovery options can be worked out… great information!

I probably was not clear on the X country… she is not running X country in college, she ran in her 9th/10th grade years in high school. Sorry for the confusion.
The trainer is having K do more cardio to help lose weight, has taken her out of competition for about a months time to concentrate on conditioning/training (remainder of indoor, up until 2nd outdoor meet) and the distance she ‘was’ running was 400m, and now with the addition of 200m to see how she will do. Hope that helps clear things up :slight_smile:

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Yeah, I tend to have easy time cutting weight.

and… it was not only due to the one month winter break but also from accumulation of bad diet and sleep from fall semester as well. That makes more sense. Thank you.

It’s got to be tough to live with roommates that are up later at night…she’ll do better with quieter environment though after moving.

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Do you think her coach should be more focused on body composition and relative strength levels versus the just lose weight approach?

Have you tried a magnesium product to help with sleep?

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Her trainer and coach changed her training and competition to work on getting her physically back on track.
Part of the reasoning also, was because 8 of the athletes on the girls team made Nationals:
(one of the 400m qualifiers) in 200m, (2) in 400m, (2, one is #4 National seed) in 800m, (1) in 60m Hurdles, 4x400m team, DMR team and (1) High jump, of which, they have been doing separate/different workouts than what the athletes are doing who are not going to Nationals.
The trainer felt it was a good time to adjust K’s training before the outdoor season got going.

I trust in this coach and trainer, as they have gotten amazing results from their athletes over the years.
For example, both of the National qualifying 400m girls ran back to back PR’s at the regional indoor championships… both are seniors.
One, ran her 1st PR at pre-lims (which also bested her previous indoor school record by over 1/2 second) then the next day, she won the 400m finals, lowering her PR again, by .7 seconds (and renewing her school record).
The other 400m runner who is going to Nationals, running in the 400m pre-lims at the regional indoor champ. beat her previous 400m PR set 2 weeks before by .3 seconds… then in the final the next day, placed 2nd by dropping her PR, again, an amazing 2.16 seconds… and would have been a new school record hadn’t the other runner beat it already!
Many others PR that day too.

Last year at the outdoor regional champ. just about every runner had PR’s which helped the girls team to win the regional title.

The 2014 DII National 800m champion was a senior from this school… she went on after graduating that year to run sub 2 min. 800m.

I think it says a lot about a coach/program that can consistently get his athletes to run faster up to and including their Senior year, especially from such a small University of less than 4,000 students, competing with Universities of upwards of 30,000… from what I have seen, it is all too uncommon in school programs.
In his 11 years as head coach he has won the Regional coach of the year award 7 times, including last year.

A couple weeks ago restocked her supply of ZMA, which she had not been taking for 2 months.

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In my posts above whenever I wrote “Regional” or “Regional Championship” I meant to say Conference and Conference Championship… guess I need to proof read better :slight_smile:

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Sounds like her coach has a strong record for developing his runners, especially in the range of events favoured by your daughter.
It would be interesting too see examples of her latest training regime at college for comparison to the work she did at home.

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Rich121

I think you are doing so many things correctly and you need to give yourself huge credit for the learning and researching and follow through regarding your daughter.

Seven years ago you came to this site and today your daughter is in college running track. How cool is that? And from the sounds of it she has done very well along the way.

I am noting a pattern of things you have been telling us regarding your daughter. The pattern is fairly consistent. It’s showing routine breakdown. She recovers, does well, and breaks down with allergies or vocal chord dysfunction. Skin issues and then bladder infection. Mono, anemia respiratory infection. She takes time off due to weather and holiday and gains weight and beelines to snacking and junk food. Routine training is taxing in all ways and when the body breaks down it has to build up again to perform at its best.

I think you are doing more right than wrong especially as a parent. It’s not easy for a parent to coach his or her own kid. I recall noticing that your daughter has been working very hard and doing some seriously intense training and she is still only in first year college?

It’s very easy to let the work volume get away from you. I am wondering if this has been happening without intention. j

I’d be reaching if I had too much criticism for the job you are doing here with your daughter who sounds like a bit of a badass young woman rock star. Good work for you and your wife and good for your daughter as well.

Have you heard the expression that “perfection can be the enemy of good”?

Sometimes when we want something so bad we miss details. I am not able to see exactly what you need or what your daughter needs. It sounds like you are covering off many areas and doing a lot of things correctly. As I said earlier if the pattern of physical issues continues double check your intensity and volumes and never be afraid to back off. Typically most people find doing more work easier and more satisfying than less work. And I have also noticed that without some comparison doing less just means not improving and when people are driven to succeed a method better be backed up somehow to “sell” the athlete in question on why doing less reps (just to use one example) will be better than 10.

These are my thoughts and I hope they are helpful or mindful to possibly give you insight.

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this is a great answer and I have been thinking about this and think the idea that not focusing enough on speed or a specific distance regarding the speed training is a good observation. I was recently discussing the topic of supplementation with someone. I think targeted supplementation is a reasonable idea.Anemia can be tricky I have heard. I was wondering Rich if trying steak tare tar and or carpaccio or liver has been recommended and if that worked? I personally don’t think the science for mainstream is accessible for most and for this reason caution might be a good idea. I’ve found great success with adding things like whole ginger and kale to my protein either pre training or post training as a means to stabilize blood sugar, ensure protein is available and fortify myself generally.

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I know some of Charlie’s athletes had anemia at various times and the food suggestions were the above mentioned meals.

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Angela,
Your advice and positive words are very much appreciated.
Been out of town (care package drop-off/visit with daughter) and busy, just read your posts.

Other than the bladder infection, every time K had a medical issue, it was well into either the schools Track or X Country program and had not trained at home for many weeks. Her allergy Dr.'s said much of her allergy issues were a result of stress, which during those times she was going through issues at her school.

Yes Angela, 7 years ago I joined here, trying to find what I could to help K, as she had just ‘fell in love’ with running and was pushing herself too much and training herself after school track practice. I let her stay after 6th grade track practice for about 2 weeks… then she got a very bad case of shin splints… that’s when I looked your site up.
At first, it was to learn what I could to help keep K from hurting herself… then, as her love did not waver and she only grew more ‘addicted to everything track’, I wanted to learn what I could to help her.

How we treated her iron issues during high school was a regular diet of chicken liver (cheaper/higher iron content than beef liver), fresh oysters with orange juice (increases iron absorption/NO Calcium within hours of meal, as it prevents iron absorption). 3-4 days a week she would drink 8 ounces of fresh kale or swiss chard/carrot/apple/celery/ginger (ginger also helps settle stomach) juice (just enough carrot/apple for flavor…not too much sugar) from a low rpm, auger style juicer (low oxygen that destroys vitamins). Would also juice beets, as they really help with iron deficiency and have many B vitamins. Senior year, we just used Biotta beetroot juice, much easier than juicing, and 500ml bottle can be bought online @ 5.79 bottle/no tax/free shipping! Each bottle is 2 servings.
Cut her milk back to mostly only hemp milk, adding Chia seed, chopped hemp seed, to daily diet during high school.

Now, after multiple blood work-ups, we have found she is fine to just take 1 iron tablet daily with citrus juice/no calcium within hours of taking is sufficient. Her iron levels are stable and at a good level.
Started back on Biotta beet juice also. The only supplements she takes are vitamins/ZMA. Will have her talk to coach about starting with protein shakes again, as that has been helpful for years.

As for my posting, I was quite frustrated. I was looking for answers/suggestions to things I missed, or may need to know? The one thing I have learned throughout this journey, is there is so much to learn about everything.
A lot of the issue now is just a need to getting back to healthy diet, and learn to balance school/study, track/training, eating healthy and … balance the social life… just another learning curve.

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Since I mentioned that a number of girls from K’s team made Nationals, I thought I would update that too.

In the NCAA DII Finals: 800m runner placed 2nd (her time would have won 26 of the past 30 DII national finals, and adds to the 1st place that a different girl on the team won in the 2014 DII Nationals) , 4x400m team placed 3rd and DMR team placed 5th… not bad for a school of only 4,000 students (3,000 if only counting undergraduates)