Jumping on to discs [video]

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Well CoolColJ - is just a nick name - my first name is Colin and J is my 2nd name. Plus a take of on rap artist “LLCoolJ” :slight_smile:
Its a nickname I used back when I was a music “mod” writer for Amiga demo crews, and a rapper in my younger years :smiley:

Apart from stiffness then you need springy/reactive bounce of the legs with heavy loads. That’s probbaly why you don’t jump so well off a runoff.
I got blasted by olylifters on another forum for suggesting jumpsquats before, but they IMO are perfect for helping this quality :slight_smile:
I saw your 110kg clean and jerk, and it does look like you lack that spring in the dip and drive.

Well that exercise may not be specific to a jerk, but it will make your mid section real strong with heavy loads! And if you cycle the ISO with the oscillatory ISO version you get both pure strength and reactive strength gains. Plus your hipflexors too.
All I know is that after doing these for the last 9 weeks, going from bodyweight to 75lbs on the chest for 35secs ISO hold, I beefed up my powerjerk by 20lbs and it looks a lot more powerful and solid. Off course my frontsquat went up a bit in that time as well, but these help the frontsquats too - so it’s a bit like a domino effect :slight_smile:
Strong core improves jerk and frontsquat, stronger frontsquat improves jerk etc

22

I see about your name.

Yeah I do need the springy/reactive bounce in my legs. I’m dipping less in my Jerk now a days and I’m doing plymo’s.

Hey what are your PB Snatch and Clean and Jerk to competition rules? Just wondering.

But the test will be at the next comp when I’ll see what improvements I’ve made. I’ll do the ISO holds with a weight and see how that goes and I’ll run it by my coach. My coach is 6x British Champion and 1x Worlds Masters Champion. But I’ll probably need to get my squats higher up also but I haven’t apart from the last month been working on my squats a lot.

I’ll see what my coach things about squatjumps and the exercise you mention. But if you practice the Jerk enough and power jerks from behind neck and on chest you will eventually get the reactive speed you need. Especially when you practice the actual lift that you contest in. I’ll see how I get along in the next few weeks and my coach is back this week and I’ll speak to him on Monday.

Before I’d get a bit sloppy and have the bar roll down my shoulder ‘just a bit’ but that affects the Jerk alot. This would happen because I’d let my chest drop just a bit. But now it is better. I feel it is slowly coming together.

Another problem I noticed is the speed of my legs. After the dip and I go up my legs don’t split fast enough but since then I have been working on that and it is better.

Koing

23

I don’t compete and can’t do the full lifts very well, I’m self taught and have all kinds of technique faults - I pull with bent arms etc :frowning:

clip of my PR powerjerk - it went from 197lbs to 217lbs. And I still had room for more for I think.

Right click and save the clip before vieiwng to avoid errors
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/blitzforce/Movies/CCJ_PowerClean+PowerJerkPR_207_217_15April04.mpg

The thing is I don’t jerk all that often, I do it maybe once every 8-10 days and then just for a few singles with up to 175lbs. But yet it went up quite a bit, so power output must be up :cool:
You see I just practise the lifts for speed here and there, while I build up brute strength and explosiveness elsewhere in other exercises.
I don’t see the lifts going up much by themselves, they are too fast to develop much force .

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also when I think about it this exercise pretty much mimics a frontsquat if you were to lean back - the lat machine one I described above

Hense the recent big jumps on my frontsquat, not just weight but reps too, from better core strength endurance and rectus femoris loading

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they are too fast to develop much force .

Well that is where your wrong. Ask any guy who knows and tell me that you can’t develop much force in the OL’s. You ‘got to be’ strong to get the bar to move like that. No way could you be weak and get away with it when the weight gets heavy.

The video looks good. Not much wrong. You should do a double knee bend in the power jerk and not come off the floor though and not jump off the floor. When the weights get heavier the weight will really hit you hard.

My coach doesn’t think much of the ISO exercise you mentioned. His argument is that you won’t find a good OL with weak abs/back as to set the position before you lift and to lift properly takes a lot of strength in your abs/back to sustain the straight back and to keep it from bending. So the core doesn’t need the exercise you mentioned. He said it would be a good exercise for a sailer as they require that strength in that position due to sailing.

Few singles up to 175lbs?! You can lift much more then that. Those at 175lbs barely tax you if you can do 217lbs. It looks alright also. Surely you can do more? Only one way to find out :smiley:

How come you don’t do a full clean? You can get the bar dam high enough of you never really bothered to catch a full clean or your flexibility (which shouldn’t be a problem imo for you, since I have never met an oriental that couldn’t squat). Or you have other things to do instead?

In my opinion you should be able to catch at least a 242lbs-250lb full clean, if you have speed going down. The front squat out of it shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Your lifts will go up as your squats go up and your technique is ‘stable’ enough to hold up. They will also go up if you just practice them more. The ISO exercise may have worked for you if you had weak abs but my coach says I don’t need to work on that.

I am adding in Lock Outs with heavy weights for 2-3reps in the PowerJerk position then to the Split Jerk position to get me use to being under heavy weights.

Jerk Starts with heavy weights also. So I can work on the stretch reflex and use to having heavy weights on my chest.

So this should fix me up for the next comp. 4th July is the next one for me :smiley:

Koing

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Power yes, force no. Maximal force can’t be exerted in the short times in olys. That’s why olylifters do squats to develop strength.

That’s the thing, I jump in everything I do - that’s why I am not suited for doing the full lifts. That’s the BBall motor patterns coming out in me :smiley:
I can do fullcleans with light weights, but I always dump the heavier ones, just can’t rack em properly. I am flexible enough, just don’t do them right.

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True.

I don’t see the lifts going up much by themselves, they are too fast to develop much force.

I thought you meant OL in general and not just the lifts. Yeah so you have the point :D. Yeah every OL worth their salt will be a squatting machine. Got to have a decent squat to have a decent lift BUT there is a time when you focus too much on squats and not enough on the actual lifts though. You can find a lot of people with HUGE squats but can’t OL well. Find some with decent squats but OL very well.

BBall motor patterns :smiley: So you play much? How tall are you and how much do you weigh? You look about 5"10 and 180-190lbs but I’m just guessing…

You have great height with your Power Cleans and don’t see no reason why you should dump the heavier full cleans. Probably just technique and you just need to stay upright and have high elbows in the finishing position at the bottom. Stay strong and tall. Big chest and straight back and just sit back. When you get getter you can use the bounce and get out.

UNREAL to see a Bulgarian do 6 single Clean and Jerks at 5kg OVER the WORLD RECORD. The Clean was SO awesome and fast and the squat up was insanely fast. Like you or me with about 140lbs. VERY inspirational. He got all 6 of the cleans easily but just didn’t quite get the Jerks. He probably has a 300kg+ squat to rock bottom though of course…

Koing

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I don’t play as much as I used to, maybe once in a few months, but I used to play twice a week every week for along time. All that jumping made me a lot faster and more explosive than I naturally was.

Anyway I’m 5’9" and weigh 218-219lbs straight out of bed, yeah I don’t look it, but I am also carrying quite a bit of flab, hopefully I will get back down to 200lbs sometime this year :slight_smile:
Maybe even down to 190, but I’ll be very lean if I get down that low.

Cleans keep crashing down on me and throwing me forward, so I have to dump it. One day I will sort it out, if I went to a proper oly gym and got some coaching I would get it right quicker, but I have so many bad habits :frowning:
But for now I’m concentrating on getting stronger.

I assume you mean the Ironmind tape? Well I have that one and few more others. There is one with Dimas in it. He is a freak, he was powercleaning 170kg (374lbs) and jerking it, then drops it down into the frontsquat rack position, arms held straight in front and walks it to the racks and puts it on the rack to do frontsquats a little later :eek:
Cranks out a double with 440lbs on frontsquats with a vertical back, as fast as me doing it will 135lbs :slight_smile:
And he only weighs around 185lbs - amazing stuff - his core strength just boggles the mind!

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Yeah they are insane!

I maxed out on Wednesday and i got 2 new PB’s :smiley:

Snatch 95kg: 1st Attempt: Failed
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ph.chea/Koing%20Snatch%2095kg%20Fail.wmv

Snatch 95kg: 2nd Attempt: Pass
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ph.chea/Koing%20Snatch%2095kg%20Pass.wmv

Clean and Jerk: 115kg: Pass
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ph.chea/Koing%20C&J%20115Kg%20Pass.wmv

:smiley:

Yup 8 months no improvement on PB then I string a good few weeks and work on technique for a bit and actually train hard as no projects and uni work. I get 10kg added to my new PB total.

Well after that I decided to Clean 125kg:

1st Attempt: I caught it at the bottom but trying to get out of 125kg after the Clean and the previous 3 lifts wasn’t easy. I got up about 2inch’s then the weight started to pull my chest down and I couldn’t keep my back straight so I had to let go :frowning:

2nd Attempt:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ph.chea/Koing%202%20Clean%20125kg%20Fail.wmv

3rd Attempt:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ph.chea/Koing%203%20Clean%20125kg%20Fail.wmv

As you can see you can’t fault me for not trying!

It was tough to get down fast enough or get the bar higher when loaded with 125kg for me. I’ll work on it and work my Jerks better and see what I can get at the 4th July comp.

Koing

30

congrats!

That’s what happens to me when I go higher than 175lbs on squatcleans (from high hang) on your 125kg attempts. It seems I am under the bar and can rack it, but I dump to forward all the time. Not solidly under the bar or something.

I like how your arms are totally straight on the pull. That is something I haven’t had much luck ingraining into me.

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I fail squat cleans exactly the same way when I’ve tried them. Have you identified technical problems leading to this Koing? Anything to do with hand positioning/torso/pull/foot replacement? Have you tried replacing the feet foward of the starting position?

Out of interest, what’s your front sq. max (if you’ve tested recently)?

I can’t accurately compare the height of the 115 attempts vs. 125 attempts, because you are in a different position relative to the video, and the video is not held stationary so can’t check the bar against a fixed point in the background. Bar height cannot be checked against your body either in the 125s because we don’t see you standing up straight.

Have you done any analysis of the timing of the lift, e.g time from apex to first part of catch, or bottom of squat? I don’t have the software to be able to do this, do you? I tried to find some software which enables you to view video frame by frame a while ago, but couldn’t.

What aspect(s) of technique were you thinking of during the lift? The one cue I can make out is ‘reach high’ (from Brian?). If detailed analysis of the lift is done we could see if this is an appropriate focus.

Sorry for all the questions!

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I like how your arms are totally straight on the pull. That is something I haven’t had much luck ingraining into me.

Well thats the coach for you. I have good technique as I spent the early stages of learning to lift well and not lift heavy. GOOD technique ALL THE TIME unless it is a competition day which he won’t focus on technique as you really don’t want to change anything and as long as you get the bar up to stay up that is good enough.

Do bear in mind that you get to limits and can’t always get past them easily due to reasons. Maybe your at your max limit for now? How much do you weigh and how much do you lift? Like I could not and won’t bother trying 150kg Clean and Jerk anytime soon. Why? I know I don’t have the power to get the bar high enough and no way I could get of rock bottom with 150kg across my chest. But in a few years I’ll get it :D. See not such at technical problem. Just that I don’t have a big enough squat yet. Bearing mind that my technique is only good becuase of my coach and hrs spent doing it. If you lack a good coach or a coach then it is harder to improve without someone picking your technique apart.

115kg to 125kg doesn’t feel much different going up. But sure as hell feels a lot different at the bottom once you caught it. 125kg wouldn’t budge for me. I want to try again but it would wreck my training up and I got a comp in 10 weeks which my coach will write a programme to peak for that 4th July comp.

I only failed that Clean because I maxed out on the Snatch at 95kg (5kg improvement since my last PB Snatch and 115kg C&J 5kg on the previous PB)

Not really any technical problems imo. The lifts were good. I could have extended further on to my toes and been more over the bar at the very top but then you have to get down underneath it from a harder position. All the top lifters also are behing the pull and ‘pull the bar’ backwards and extend backwards then they are at the top and are actually behind from where they started the lift. So they ‘move around the bar’.

Imo I had the bar high enough on the 3rd pull. I had the bar on my chest for a split second but I didn’t stay upright and tight enough to keep it. I lost it because it was heavy and I wasn’t as tight and upright. I did catch the bar and had it perfectly on my 1st lift but that wasn’t not recorded due to my coach not being tech savy! But on that one I couldn’t get out of the bottom.

I haven’t tested a PB front squat in a while or back squat for that matter. I was going to test on that day but I was tired from the lifts of that day and made no sense to lift big that day.

I last 1RM front squat was 120kg or 125kg. Can’t remember but of course it is different once you had to get the bar up and then catch it then squat up from that. Also tougher once you maxed out on Snatch and Clean and Jerk before hand. I probably should have gone to 120kg first but I couldn’t be bothered :stuck_out_tongue:

Not specificall done any timing of the lifts but I can view the video frame by frame at a rate of 24 frame in one second. So I can slow it down and have a very clean image. Of course I cant’ upload this as the file would be huge. 300mb per minute of DV film!

I was just thinking about doing the same things I have always done. My technique is at the stage where I don’t need to think about it as I have been lifting for 3yrs now. Just make sure I extended on to toes and ‘shrugged’ at the with STRAIGHT ARMS and not bend my arms too soon. You lose a lot of upwards force with bent arms. THEN once up PULL YOURSELF UNDERNEATH IT FAST. That is KEY.

“Reach high” is always a good focus. You can’t reach high enough imo. If you get the bar high you have just that bit more time to get underneath the bar. Bar was high enough in the 3rd 125Kg Clean imo. I just wasn’t rock solid to get it.

No problems about the questions. I’m just glad I manage to actually get better results. Failing the lifts at comps was not good for the mental aspect of lifting. It p!ss’s you off knowing you can do more.

Koing

33

Yeah I thought it was a problem with positioning, because you dumped it straight away. If you had caught it but not been able to squat the weight up, then you would have held it a bit longer while trying to squat it, before dumping it. I have the same problem with positioning at the bottom, except all the time. I’ve actually been at the point where my power clean is equal to my squat clean because of the poor position at the bottom.

Yes I thought you had the bar high enough on the 3rd one. the only problem with that focus it one might pull too long, delaying the movement under the bar. In your case though, as the technique is ingrained it’s not a problem.

34

I have the same problem with positioning at the bottom, except all the time. I’ve actually been at the point where my power clean is equal to my squat clean because of the poor position at the bottom.

Yeah the position wasn’t SOLID at the bottom. It ‘looked’ alright but wasn’t solid enough to take 125kg on my chest.

Yes I thought you had the bar high enough on the 3rd one. the only problem with that focus it one might pull too long, delaying the movement under the bar. In your case though, as the technique is ingrained it’s not a problem.

Well the focus to go high is always good imo. I suppose you could just pull it not as high and go down fast but that isn’t good to teach though imo. Always better to get it high then get down fast.

Nah can’t pull for too long. You always go down once you got it as high then just PULL underneath to go under and catch it.

I reckon I can power clean 100kg but I’m not sure. 90kg I can definately for 3power cleans then 3 full cleans. Was messing about and decided to do that and oh on the last full clean I’d jerk it also. It was a mofo to do.

I’ll get the 125kg easily. Just don’t have to max out the Snatch or Clean and Jerk before hand. But now I’ll know how it feels now. Before that day the most I had Cleaned was 110kg. I didn’t go higher as I only Jerked 110kg ONCE. So no point in going higher. On that day I did 115kg for the first time C&J. But I knew I could Clean more though. Then I just skipped to 125kg and it was too much on that day. I’ll see how my training goes and see what I get in the next competition. After it I may test another max. But it isn’t good to test too much as it wrecks training schedule.

You should work with lighter weights and work on being in a nice upright position. How is your front Squat? How are your elbows and arms?

I just need to be a bit more upright and have REALLY HIGH elbows to help catch. Got to be dam strong to muscle up 125kg from a bad position. I can do that with less weight but that isn’t the point at max weight. You have faults occur with ‘any’ sloppyness.

You got any videos of you lifting?

Koing

35

Koing

Training at 90 - 95kg (~80%) is not a bad thing - it’s above the training threshold but won’t induce overreaching (asuming reasonable volumes). What you lack from not cycling intensity however is the confidence and specific skill to rack limit weights. Technique can be text book at 80% but what’s the point if it crumbles at >95%?

Additionally, watch any elite lifter jerk… Immediately after recovering from the clean the elbows are pushed DOWN and out. The position assumed is similar to one that you would start a military press. Currently your shoulders do not contribute to the jerk drive. (For an example watch JL)

I believe Brian is wrong in this instance. Do not follow blindly. Question EVERYTHING…

36

Yes training on 90-95kg is alright.

I’ll rack 125kg in no time. Just not before I lift heavy a few times.

I like high elbows and see how it works for the next comp. Things seem to be going better now that I am training consistently.

Well considering I military press not much at all. About 60kg at best the contribution would be little. But things are going well though.

But I may switch to squat jerk and see how that goes after the next competition. If that works for me then geat. I believe I have the flexibility to do it. But the leg strength out of the bottom? Not sure yet.

Koing

37

Keep elbows high and keep missing jerks. Its up to you.

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We’ll see what I do in the next comp. Is it 4th June or 4th July?

Koing

39

Hi. Following my knee surgery July last year (always good to get your excuses in early eh), I gained full r.o.m after about 2-3 months, and could full squat only this Feb without swelling, and started lifting again. Front squat is about 120kg. elbows and arms generally low and slow lol. I Powered 100kg last week, and I’m using 80-90k for 2 rep sets at the moment. Dunno if this is right though. How light should I use? At the moment I’m trying to follow the rule of going only as far as I can keep good general form (from what I can tell on my own). I’m doing about 12 reps WL exercises 4 times a week, (with 12-15 reps squats 4 times a week). I haven’t got any videos at the moment.

40

I see.

Well quick arms and high elbow help you to rack heavy weights. Nice upright and SOLID position is a MUST th ough.

80-90kg for 2reps and in sets of 5 is about right.

Power Clean 100kg is good. Should get at least 110kg full clean but this depends on your speed but you should be nailing 110kg though.

80% of 1RM is a good base. Then work 85%, 90%, 92-95%. Cycle it.

You should be doing more squats. Have 2 sessions in a week where you hit it 6reps x 5 sets back squats. Good number. Good to increase your work volume and your lifts. Then cycle it down after say 4 or 6 weeks. This will depend on how adance and how heavy you can go with your k nee. Good to hit 6reps and 4 or 5 sets. Watch out for your knee as my knees are fine and I hae not had surgery so I would not know.

Koing