Specifically in regards to training at altitude as means of overspeed, we must still consider the sprinters sport form at the time of the altitude session as I’m not sure that sprinting at altitude guarantees a supramax performance. If not, then the idea of peaking for a meet or session at altitude, in order to attain a supramax performance, seems counter intuitive.
If, on the other hand, we were to accept that sprinting at altitude ensures, with high probability, that a supramax performance is likely to happen, even if the sprinter is not in top form, then your idea would stand to reason IF one accepts that one or two single exposures to a supramax stimulus is sufficient to provide a strong enough residual to build upon with subsequent ‘conventional’ speed training, back home, that would serve to bring ‘unaided’ speed potential closer to the previous supramax performances at altitude.
The method described above in this thread (contrast method) is of course the extreme way of going about it and got described only because the training at LSU was linked, and Shaver, like Loren, uses contrast training.
In the past, when I tried this, I got large short term performance gains–and then I got injured. So this time, I was MUCH more careful about total volume and total stress.
I survived!
This time, I actually got to race after the contrast/overspeed, and got a lifetime PB right out of the gate (and the conditions weren’t even that good–overnight storm, 60F, cloudy, slight drizzle).
So the next question is does the sharp cutback in volume necessary to get through the workout uninjured (500m HI/wk compared to 1500m at the start of SPP2) give you an absolute peak–or do you get faster yet through the SE from several weeks of racing?
I’m pretty possitive altitude results in faster times, but I agree with you that the circumstances surrounding a performance at altitude may not be conducive to produce that faster time.
the point to remember here is- the greater the PB the more extreme the stress on the body is and the greater the care must be going into the next comp or top speed session.
Of course, I favor less extreme measures done more often over time to yield overall higher results with less injuries (or, perhaps, because of less injuries).
But, if you have been stuck and training has not gone as planned and a big meet is upon you, this may be your answer.
Just make sure you are not in this situation in the first place because of a reliance on such extreme measures.
This training method was discussed in the Richard Thompson thread I believe… and I stated then that as a misinformed 16yo (physically about 14yo) I undertook a training regime of plyometrics and overspeed only about 2 or 3 times a week. Any way in a matter of weeks I’d gone from 12.00 to 11.3…
I’ve missed pretty much the whole SPP with an ankle operation and college work. But I’ve managed to do a solid 3 week intenstification (a la CF SPP s-l) and am now going to taper for 14 days (two meets in 14 days)… not expecting to set the track alight atm obv. but once these meets are out of the way I’m going to attempt a jump start with some contrast training… I’ll get back to you with the results.
Well, I’m experimenting with doing this on top of (after) what you advocate. And in the second overspeed session (after 12 minute rest) I hit 2.41 for 30m. Such measurements are of course fraught with error, but it was fast enough that I don’t want to think about going faster than that. So all week I was thinking about your 10-day rule about spectacular performances, and between the last overspeed and the race this weekend, I did absolutely, positively NOTHING. No submax, no tempo, no starts, no weights, no plyos, no nothing–just get through the week uninjured and see what you get.
I have not gotten injured and have had no pain (hamstring or anything else) all week.
At this point, it looks like this works to taper down to comp from what you have in your SPP lecture. From what I’ve experienced, there is no way you can do this type of training as part of a Charlie Francis SPP structure–you have to cut everything else back too far and there’s no chance of anything like 3X/week with weights after track or 4X/week with weights before track like John Smith has it. The contrast/overspeed has to be done as the final taper.
But now after I have the PB, is THIS the peak, or do you peak off this after a few races? Only one way to find out.
Be VERY careful here. See the stuff tamfb linked about LSU early in this thread and understand how much you have to cut back AFTER the contrast/overspeed-- and the after part is the key. Because of the contrast effect, the impact forces, and muscular and CNS loadings in this workout are extreme. You cannot combine this training with how you would normally train and expect to survive uninjured. But Dennis Shaver has a whole bunch of folks who argue strongly for what they’ve been doing.
Given the very powerful training impact that is yielded by the over speed work that you are conducting- we know, by your admission, that the frequency of other subsequent training sessions must be reduced dramatically; regardless of content.
This then poses the question of reduced work capacity and unstable readiness: preparedness
It would seem as if you are operating more upon these very sharp spikes in readiness while the preparedness curve may potentially suffer the losses in the steepness of its slope and, as a result, create this situation in which you are always walking on egg shells so to speak following the over speed session.
The over speed creates a powerful impact and longer residual; however, at the expense of a loss in preparedness due to the infrequent post-over speed training sessions.
So while the possibility to attain higher performance peaks is ensured it poses the question as to whether it’s worth it as your qualification level rises, and with it your speed, and with that the greater risk of disaster…
I took the time to draw a graphic illustration of the typical readiness: preparedness curve and another one that might potentially reflect your situation.
If the down period is ten days, you can come up again but I’d think you’d need prob three to four weeks to train, spike and recover till the next big performance to keep going but you can use your last big performance as the lead in to another ten days on- but that one will represent your peak and will require re-building after. How does that scenario fit with what you’ve noted in these groups.
It seems as if the number of camps using overspeed has decreased over the years though some, obviously, still do.
I was told by one of my former athletes who trained with Seagrave in the early part of this decade that he quit using pulleys(including his own pacer) around 2001/2002.
Thanks for all the great information! Are these 2X30m flying sprints? I assume they must be considering your statement that you ran one of them in 2.41. BTW: How was this timed and what type of surface and slope were you running on? Also, how much faster is this than what you can run on an even surface.
So this method seems to be high risk for top guys. But what about people with a lower top-speed… the recovery should be quicker afterwards… even some elite level jumpers would fall into this speed catagory.
Well, the timing situation is that US Nationals are two weeks from this coming weekend, and we have races every week through that period. I wasn’t planning on going (not close enough to winning if you’re around 10.2 to make it worth the cost) but I’m rethinking that now, and obviously, I’d love to schedule the peak for the 20-27 of this month if possible.
I was thinking about having a race-like training session (3X50+100 all with long rest) midweek, then a real 100m race next weekend (and not racing 200 in any of these meets), followed by the major taper for supercompensation–trying to make it similar to what you did with Ben with races every 3 days for the overload, then supercompensation into WC off that.
From what you’re saying, if I do this again at the end of SPP2 next year (and I will, unless the performances fall off or I get injured in the next couple of weeks), I’ll need to schedule this a bit earlier in SPP, which means a shorter SPP going into it, in order to have the 3 weeks of training coming out.
What I see from John Smith isn’t anything like this. HSI has a two week cut down to comp which is basically an exponential taper. It goes from 4 workouts (and 4 weights before track) in the last week of SPP, to 2 workouts and 2 weight sessions in the first week of the taper, then 1 workout and one start session in the second week of the taper. After this everything is submax not over 80m and starts, with only the race on the weekend being high intensity. What you’re seeing right now from Carmelita Jeter is coming out of this kind of thing: She did a lot of work on starts during indoors, then a lot of overdistance after indoors with 400 meter races the first 2 weeks of April–and the fastest time in the world for 100m at Mt. Sac. Now, Carmelita has beaten the Jamaicans and run ~10.85w…twice.
The USATF training chart gives a training time of 2.69 for a 10.2 competition time. So, 2.41 is definitely pushing the envelope of what might be considered “safe” unless you’re running fast enough to line up next to Bolt (I wish).
I’m not that much of an overspeed fan and won’t go anywhere near a towing apparatus. I did these two workouts in distance racing flats (~5 0z) on a slightly sloping but perfect surface in the parking lot of the local high school, which also has a rekortan track for the warmup and final sprint on the flat. You should do this on grass, but I don’t have one available without the surface imperfections that could easily sprain an ankle running at these paces.
I maybe using the contrast method earlier than expected; in the next few days. Strong headwinds are forecast for Saturday’s competition and I’m not sure it’s of much value for me to running into another headwind like last wkend when what I really need is stimulus… because I’ve missed so much prep.
I’ve got a competition in 12 days time… I’m sure I won’t have a 10 day down time as I’m only a 6.94 60m guy… but I’m not sure whether to keep it 10 days out but include another HI before the competition, or move it nearer and do nothing like lkh before the comp.