I’m not sure. The only experience I had with it was watching Milt Ottey, who was no1 in 1982, train. He, in fact, did do some SE 300s and 200s during his training. There are issues of strength/weight that may be tough to address. I’d think that 3 cycles woud be pretty much the minimum.
Before I take my stab at this assignment, I was wondering if you could expand on your principles as to “why” regarding #2 and #3.
2 and 3: Max Str is, in part, dependant on leverage related to muscle pump, which is rapidly diminished after the cessasion of big lifts, so additional recovery and looseness resulting from a taper is mitigated by the loss of the pump, therefore a shorter break from Max str to Big Event.
Would this have more to with the rep number than anything else. Instead of a maintenance phase of 2-3 reps(6 RM load) x a couple/few sets why couldn’t you have 1 set x 5 reps (6RM load)? That way you still maintain the intensity of the lift but are still reducing the volume as much BUT the added benefit would be the added pump effect. Just a question that might have some merit.
you’re likely to stay higher towards max in the late stages AND keep the reps slightly higher as well in order to preserve the pump. You could get creative in the taper as well by hollowing it out a bit. say lowering the reps right down for a short period till close to the meet and then going back up a bit in the final sessions or alternating sessions with higher and lower numbers with a higher session close in. Any throwers or lifters want to put some personal preferences in here?
This is where I’d take my knowledge of elite Olympic lifters and what they do as far as taper scheduling is concerned. The funny thing is, is that it’s very similar to yours Mr. Francis.
10th day - 100% lifts
8th/6th/4th days - 95% Olympic lifts
9th/7th/5th days - aprox 60% Olympic lifts
3rd/2nd/1st days - no real lifting, cutting weight
They also stop any max rep work from 2-4 weeks out from the competition. (Looks kinda similar to the timing of your 200m drills from Seoul’s final … By the way, this is too much of a coincidence of training albeit different sports not to realize that there’s obviously underlying governing principles working here)
I used this schedule for an Olympic lifter a few months back and even though the 8th/6th and 4th days weren’t exactly 95% (due probably to the 10th day max lifts) she came thru with flying colors!!!
If I was to alter this schedule a little (for the possible needed pump) then I might add in a set of 8 reps at the 10 or even 12 RM load after the 95% load lift for a single.
I’ll get you something for the rest of the assignment Professor.
You’ve entered another parameter I havn’t accounted for- making weight. What would you do if this was not a consideration (SP for example)?
I think that you really could do sub max rep work … (example 10 reps at 12RM load or 8 reps or 12 RM load or even 6 reps at 8RM load. Note: those noted loads are between 75-80% in intensity although the reps pertaining to each RM (load) might be a touch high as they are around 97%) … during the final taper if you really wanted to without much detriment. This would be in addition to the 95% lifts beforehand.
On which days?
Charlie what do you mean by “ccs” here?
I think these words should be enough food for thought for everybody,and deserve more understanding and discussion to understand the CFTS more “in deep”!
I assume he means “cubic centimetres” as in the engine size on a motorbike etc.
Displacement is defined as the total volume of air/fuel mixture an engine can draw in during one complete engine cycle. In a piston engine, this is the volume that is swept as the pistons are moved from top dead center to bottom dead center. To the layperson this is the “size” of the engine. Motorcycle engines range from 50 cc (cubic centimetres) to 2300 cc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_engine
Basically he is talking about volume of muscle.
This sub max rep work would still have to be done on the 8th, 6th and 4th days. The CNS days.
This makes things even more interesting.Have to think about it over the weekend.
Not sure you need it all three but maybe day 6 or day 8 and 4? Thoughts?
not that i disagree with you charlie, as athletes and coaches we have to go with what works. but i believe that developing a complete understanding about training and the occuring physiological processes will improve training methods and therfor athletic results. for example if we understand why physiologically we cant say max bench every day then we can with our gained knowledge be able to max bench everyday, if that was the goal. i raised the question not because i didnt understnad but to stimulate thought on the topic so hopefully that we eventually wont just say its “CNS” fatigue but that it occurs for this and this reason and this is how we can get around it. a person that can max 6 times a week is going to progress faster than a person who can only do it 2 times a week due to neurological adaptation.
Certainly our understanding of training is enhanced by an understanding of physiology. But biology is probably best addressed in a physiology thread, since many useful discussions end up sidetracked by putting everything under a microscope.
Sometimes a topic will spawn a new one. I believe the discussion of what “CNS fatigue” really is has been started elsewhere. If not, how about getting it rolling James?
You want to discuss the physiological basis but:
1: there is no agreement outside of those with experience that there even IS such an experience.
2: You’ve just dismissed the entire concept by suggesting that you can “Max” 6 times a week, and that you will progress faster doing that than those who max 2 times a week.
Well, frankly:
A: If you are a mature athlete and you can Max 6 times a week, your max is shit!
B: Continuing to “max” 6 times a week will guarantee that your max remains below the “max” of an equally gifted athlete who performs it twice a week, which will remain below that which an equally gifted athlete can only achieve once every 10 days.
C: The only job is to move performance up continually by understanding the timing limitations that run beyond purely muscular issues (my initial point) and adjusting every other parameter to suit that one prime requisite to avoid plateauing.
adam archuleta trains benching sometimes 12 times a week with maximum weights (97% or more) he benches 530 last time i checked, no shirt, no wraps , no bull. todd heap and terell shrugs train in the same manor all 3 are great athletes. i went to a seminar given my jay schroeder on may the 6th. he told me a story of an eastern bloc coach giving a seminar on the same topic (being able to max day after day multiple times a day) everyone in the audience was saying he was full of shit but jay knew he wasnt because he had been doing it for years already. You can max out everyday even multiple times a day, you can run at maximum speeds or close to them over and over day after day. i know people who do it. now ofcourse certain traits must be inplace to allow someone to do this. a 530 bench at a weight of 210 seems pretty damn high for a guy that doesnt train to be a powerlifter and doesnt use a bench shirt. o yea and he benches this weight explosivly. just because most systems dont allow high volume and high load doesnt mean that it cant be done the bulgarian weightlifters would train 6 times a day sometimes more and would use maximum weight with nearly every session. at elite levels neurological adaptations are what produce results. so yes a person who benches their maximum weight more is going to advance faster. samething with and training stimulus the more it can be applied the faster one can advance.
adam archuleta trains benching sometimes 12 times a week with maximum weights (97% or more) he benches 530 last time i checked, no shirt, no wraps , no bull. todd heap and terell shrugs train in the same manor all 3 are great athletes. i went to a seminar given my jay schroeder on may the 6th. he told me a story of an eastern bloc coach giving a seminar on the same topic (being able to max day after day multiple times a day) everyone in the audience was saying he was full of shit but jay knew he wasnt because he had been doing it for years already. You can max out everyday even multiple times a day, you can run at maximum speeds or close to them over and over day after day. i know people who do it. now ofcourse certain traits must be inplace to allow someone to do this. a 530 bench at a weight of 210 seems pretty damn high for a guy that doesnt train to be a powerlifter and doesnt use a bench shirt. o yea and he benches this weight explosivly. just because most systems dont allow high volume and high load doesnt mean that it cant be done the bulgarian weightlifters would train 6 times a day sometimes more and would use maximum weight with nearly every session. at elite levels neurological adaptations are what produce results. so yes a person who benches their maximum weight more is going to advance faster. samething with and training stimulus the more it can be applied the faster one can advance.
tried to get to this link but got an error message… is it just me?