I have been working on a wieght training program for some golf players. I have the exercies broken down into: Adress Backswing Downswing and Impact. All of the exercises are specific to each phase of the swing. The are nothing complicated and is actually more of a circut type training. Theres tons of balance core and proprioceptive instead of power or oly lifts. I like your weekly routine it would be a perfect match for my gym work. It would be awsome for a 2 week clinic. I will try to post the routine when I have more time.
And of course flexibility work.
R&R you really are an angry (young?) man aren’t you? So are we into a history lesson or discussing the practical application of swing mechanics to individuals? Certainly I am more interested in applying what I know to specific situations rather than having pissing contests. That said I will play parts of your game.
- Do you want to include Young Tom Morris who’s achievements in the British Open were remarkable? I guess not as you are only talking about ‘the tour’ by that I take it you mean the USPGA tour. So I take it you mean Snead, Hogan and Nicklaus. Although why only 3 what about Tiger? Hmmm possibly not given his troubles the past few years. I will leave him out. What about Byron Nelson? A case could be made for him as well especially as the USGA testing machine Iron Byron is based on his swing.
Rather than looking at what they did different from others wouldn’t it be better to look at what they did the same as each other and how those can be utilised?
Ball striking is only a small part of the equation, the ability to get the ball in the hole with the least number of hits is the real test. Just ask guys like Paul Runyan, Peter Thomson, whats his name the rotund SA guy who hit big draws was a great putter and won The Open 3 or 4 times times, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros and even Tiger the past few years.
- It is generally accepted that the left shoulder ‘lifts’ which drops the right and lowers the plane, it is vital at that point to ensure that the right wrist is held back in a fully cocked position.
That said I have read about (and utilised) a power move aimed at ensuring the arms and body stay in sync. The first time was when Davis Love III first came on tour and was extremely long. I have since read about other players using a similar move.
It involves the first move being a slight pull away with the hands to get width, it is very minor and ensures you don’t get too narrow coming down, it also gives a split second for the body to get rotating and can help stop getting the hands ‘stuck’ and blocking it or the hands ‘flipping’ through impact. I see this as more of an advanced move as it can cause players to get off plane and come over the top and pull it left (if right handed).
2. ½ way down.
- I don’t really follow the USPGA tour that closely to be honest, I don’t have cable and try and have a life away from the net. Hmmm guessing Jim Fyurk (sp?)?
I probably got those wrong so you are right I know nothing about golf.
Re the daily practice debate, I was looking at people who work as well but still maintain that you can get by with less time on the range. Too many people hit balls when they should work on drills and ensuring they have the correct positions sorted. These can be done away from the course. Also be careful that you don’t overlook rhythm, you can have all the key moves but if your swing timing is out you will never play well.
In my personal case I now play about 3 times a year and am able to hit about 60% fairways and 10-12 GIR, with the others being within 20 yards, my short game is crap though LOLOLOL nothing brilliant but shows the benefit of solid basics and mechanics. I am certainly not saying I am fantastic or anything just using that as an example.
It is similar to the Olift debate, traditionally it was believed that they needed to train almost daily with 2 or more sessions. I have read of situations where the number Olift sessions pw have been reduced and lifts
Ok, I didn’t take any of the original responses at face value.
Answers
No handicap
Strengths - short game is good now, after many 10s of hours practice in the garden - e.g full swings with lob wedge going only 30 yards.
Weaknesses - see list below
Technical knowledge - I can pick apart my own swing effortlessly, and others who I watch. Takes around 30-50 shots to do so.
Time for practice/play 5 hours a week (guestimate for the next few months)
Facilities - a few pay&play courses close by, short & long, a large driving range (mat), I need one up to 300 yards.
Bad shots - see below
Been playing nearly 2 weeks now.
I don’t calculate averages as my weaknesses are clear to me, and they can be misleading.
Weaknesses
1 Weight transference - too quickly to left on downswing
2 Head up early, especially on chips & putts
3 Address - alignment of clubhead to right of target
4 Loosening of grip of right hand at top of backswing
5 Loose arms (esp. left) at top of backswing
6 Poor position at top - not tight and too far to right looking from behind me
7 Swing plane - out to in on downswing
8 (forgot since yesterday)
Bad shots
1 ‘Thinning’ related to 1&2 above
2 Hook, related to 3 above
3 Pull left related to 3 and 7 above
Best performances in tournaments -
1 Parred a hard par 3 course (long and greens no bigger than 10 yards across) at age 14/15
2 1 under in regional tournament at age 15/16 (full course)
3 6 under in club tournament at age 16. This round included a lost ball just off fairway, and a missed putt for a 29 back nine 
Damn, how could I have been so stupid and forgotten Moe Norman. Although he didn’t play a lot on the USPGA tour he won a bucket load of Canadian tournaments. His ball striking is legendary and I have read about players (including Nicklaus) surrounding him on the practice tee to watch. His palm dominated grip, very wide stance and short straight through and back swing worked for him but haven’t generally been accepted.
Hogan’s swing was also based on what worked for him, trying to overcome his low hooks. His description of the swing plane as a sheet of glass with the head sticking out was revolutionary. I am concerned however that many get too flat trying to implemement it. Problems also occur if people use his very weak left hand grip, I prefer a more neutral grip with the v’s between shoulder and chin. I was intrigued to read that article recently about Hogan’s ‘secret’ of kicking the right knee in on the downswing….interesting.
Sorry Sam but you are gone, I’ll go for Nicklaus. His high hand, less body rotational swing with lots of leg drive set the swing back 30 years. His phenomenal length and success meant he was copied for years, gawd remember the amazing reverse C positions of guys like Jerry Pate, no wonder they had back problems.
It wasn’t until Nick Faldo’s successful swing revamp that players started moving away from the Nicklaus model. I maintain that Faldo’s swing of circa 1978 is the most easily applied to the widest range of players.
I remembered the name of that rotund South African, Bobby Locke.
For what it’s worth, I think I ought to mention that John is an absolutely incredible swing coach.
I’m an aspiring amateur golfer, and I’ve worked with some pretty big name teachers such as Carl Welty and Jim McLean, I also think that I have a fundamental grasp of ball physics and the modern two pivot point golf swing. Regardless, there are many times where my ball striking seems to go to shit, and I end up logging on to ask John what’s going up. Usually, all I have to do is describe my ball flight, sometimes I’ll mention a “feeling” and qualify it with a “real” picture–any golfer who knows anything about the golf swing will know that there is often times a huge discrepency between what we THINK we are doing, and what we are ACTUALLY doing.
With that said, John’s diagnosis and prescription of drills has been nothing short of incredible, and his exercise recommendations specialised for golfers are spot on (with exception to his cardio reccomendations, bollocks to cardio!).
Anyhow, this is just my two quid.
I’m in a good mood today, no flaming.
John C-S…
Yeah, Hogan… Moe Norman… and a dust up between Trevino, Miller etc for 3rd…
Hogan did swing on a slightly flatter plane than his peers BUT his arms remained on plane at all times and never went flat, achieved by consiously swinging his arms across his chest and not around his chest, and that was important.
As you said, Hogan’s swing was also based on what worked for him, trying to overcome his low hooks. His weak left hand grip enabled him to fan the clubface open on the backswing, thus eliminate the low hooks.
Hogans true secret wasn’t the kickin in of the right knee.
Semi correct. Think about the knees at the top of the backswing. I will leave it at that.
Answer to Q.3. Chad Cambell.
Which was my question, what are those specific ways Rnr?
Brian, Lots of core work. Especially rotational movements such as Incline, Sitting, Standing Russian Twists etc. The more rotaional power you have the more clubhead speed you can generate.
More specifically than that, Weighted golf clubs. One of Vijay Singhs little secret during his warm up…
Them exercises will do more for producing power in your golf swing and generating more clubhead speed than Oly’s would ever do… Oly’s won’t lower your handicap, they will just make you a better lifter.
While on the subject of Strength training, <<<<David Duvals biggest downfall. Fell in love with weights, BOOM, all the feel gone… Just a caution…
I forgot to add to my message.
I have found weights to have little impact on golf swing and distances of shots. I strongly disagree that by doing weights you will lose your feel - part of the ‘muscle bound’ myth.
I have recently lost about 30% (edit) strength in weights due to illness, but golf game has not suffered because of it.
Also, if I was a teacher I would avoid modelling anyone’s swing on a famous golfer, because of variation in peoples’ biomechanics and fitting of their clubs.
I would take each person anc pick out their flaws one by one, while leaving room for flexibility in their swing style. I don’t believe there is one perfect model of how the swing should look. It’s of course the numbers that count, not how it’s done. I’d rather win ugly.
Thoughts?
See that is why you need to take the happy pills every day 
Yeah, Hogan… Moe Norman… and a dust up between Trevino, Miller etc for 3rd…
How did I forget Trevino? (kicks himself) Miller wasn’t at his peak long enough for my liking to be considered.
Hogan did swing on a slightly flatter plane than his peers BUT his arms remained on plane at all times and never went flat, achieved by consiously swinging his arms across his chest and not around his chest, and that was important.
As you said, Hogan’s swing was also based on what worked for him, trying to overcome his low hooks. His weak left hand grip enabled him to fan the clubface open on the backswing, thus eliminate the low hooks.
That is right and I wonder how applicable some of that is to the average guy. That is why I put about some people who stick rigidly to his style get too flat IMHO. Re the clubface fanning I know that is something Mark OMeara works on (and prob Tiger now) I prefer to focus on levering the right wrist back on itself. Too often people think of wrist cock and fold it the wrong way.
Put your right hand directly out in front of you with the forearm horizontal to the floor and thumb pointing skywards. Most people cock the wrist so the thumb comes towards their chin, this is a weak position. Instead fold the wrist back on itself so the thumb moves straight right and back towards forearm, this is a much stronger position and is critical in the type of swing I advocate.
Hogans true secret wasn’t the kickin in of the right knee.
I only ut that bit because it was a recent ‘snippet’ most wouldn’t have come accross and I was being a bloody show off :eek:
Semi correct. Think about the knees at the top of the backswing. I will leave it at that.
hmmm I know whta you are talking about but in most cases I think this leads to either too much lateral movement and / or a spinning out of the hips. I prefer trying to get the whole body in sync on the downswing. This is especially important for good players, you will often see tour players comment about their arms and body getting out of sync.
Answer to Q.3. Chad Cambell.
Shit eh.
Brian, Lots of core work. Especially rotational movements such as Incline, Sitting, Standing Russian Twists etc. The more rotaional power you have the more clubhead speed you can generate.
More specifically than that, Weighted golf clubs. One of Vijay Singhs little secret during his warm up…
Them exercises will do more for producing power in your golf swing and generating more clubhead speed than Oly’s would ever do… Oly’s won’t lower your handicap, they will just make you a better lifter.
Good advice their except for the bit about O lifts but lets just agree to disagree Another benefit of core work is the incresed prevention of lower back injuries, the bane of golfers.
While on the subject of Strength training, <<<<David Duvals biggest downfall. Fell in love with weights, BOOM, all the feel gone… Just a caution…
David Duvals biggest problem is in his head. I think he set a goal of winning a major and when he did that he felt like he had achieved his goal and wasn’t able to carry on. He lost he desire to play.
Also, if I was a teacher I would avoid modelling anyone’s swing on a famous golfer, because of variation in peoples’ biomechanics and fitting of their clubs.
I would take each person anc pick out their flaws one by one, while leaving room for flexibility in their swing style. I don’t believe there is one perfect model of how the swing should look. It’s of course the numbers that count, not how it’s done. I’d rather win ugly.
Thoughts?
I agree to a point with what you are saying. There are certain critical points that need to be in any golf swing and how you get there depends upon your (or your coaches) philosophy and whee that originates from. It is unfortaunate that the best player in the world at any given time will influence how peple perceive the swing, Tigers swing works for him (well not so well at the moment 
) and trying to copy him will only cause problems for most, especially if you are 5’7 and 200lbs. As you put though it isn’t necessarily how it is how many and the number 3 looks the same on everyones card
JAmes I’m away for the next few days but haven’t ignored your other post. If you want I will answer that spefically upon returning, let me know or I can leave it for others to give their input, no worries either way.
OK John, I’ll be glad to hear your or anyone elses ideas, whenever you can.
I haven’t forgotten this, just been uber busy with other stuff. I will answer in detail within the next day or so.
I said I’d be back (unsure whether that is like Arnie or a bad penny LOL) sorry it took so long. Thanks for all that info James. I’ll try not to ask too many more questions and hopefully answer some.
It looks like you have a pretty decent skill level and idea of what you are doing which helps HEAPS. How old are you now? As you have just got back into it I would focus on drills and emphasising certain key positions rather than specifically hitting lots of balls and playing. I am not saying don’t do those just try not to be too influenced by the results. I strongly recommend you get that Faldo book and read it!
Re weaknesses
1 Weight transference - too quickly to left on downswing.
Try and hold your right foot down as long as you can.
2 Head up early, especially on chips & putts
Try this drill to forget the result it is called back / hit. When your backswing (regardless of length) reaches it’ completion say to yourself Back, at point of contact with the ball say Hit. That is all! :eek: Focus on trying to get those right, forget about the ball and result, your aim is to get the back and hit exactly right. See how that goes.
3 Address - alignment of clubhead to right of target
What is your preshot routine like? ALWAYS do the same thing and ensure you do it at the same pace. Do it before every shot especially on the range, so that it becomes habit. Look at the target from behind the ball (5 or so yards) and figure out the shot you want to play. When you walk in to the shot, line up the clubhead first, then the body. Try focussing on a spot 6 or so inches in front of the ball along the target line, setup foussing on that rather than the target far off into the distance.
4 Loosening of grip of right hand at top of backswing
Right hand? Where is right thumb positioned on the club at address?
As for grip tightness, feel like you are holding a bird. Tight enough that it won’t fly away, but not so tight that you will crush it.
5 Loose arms (esp. left) at top of backswing
Ensure at address that your elbows are pointed out. Try the towel drill.
Place a towel under each armpit and make ¾ swings, this will help with arm/body connection.
6 Poor position at top - not tight and too far to right looking from behind me.
From address position, simply fold wrist back on itself (as per my earlier description), this should put the club close to horizontal to the ground and parralel to your toes. Simply turn your shoulders, at the top you should feel tighter and the club set in the right position. Stretch as far as you can and hold for a count of 2, relax and go to the address position again, do that 5 times, on lat 2 complete a swing. Then make a normal swing.
7 Swing plane - out to in on downswing
we’ll get to that later.
Re your hook, if you have that wrist cock sorted then you will be able to get rid of your hook. I could put more but there is so much I could confuse things especially without seeing any pics / video. I srongly suggest you get that Faldo book and read it (did I already put that? )
Justin Rose’s swing me like… a lot
Thanks John,
number 8 was meant to be; inconsistent pre-shot routine
number 9 can be inconsistent finish
Which flaws do you think i should work on first?
I think I had the faldo book but sold it! Was it the one with the shot of Faldo from waist up, with a bright blue sky background?
I suggest you work on.
Address (grip, stance, alignment) this can be done inside if you want and can actually be better than having course / practice distractions.
Correct rotation.
Again this can be done away from the course. Here is a drill for you.
At address place your R hand on your R hip and your L hand on your R shoulder. Push both back /away (behind you) at the same time once you feel resistence in your R hip/thigh and it has turned away stop pushing that and just focus on R shoulder. Initiate the downsing as you normally would but hold the R shoulder back with your hand. This will help you with your tendency to get too quick on your transfer.
Re the book, no that is not the right book and I am pleased you got rid of it This is the one to get, it was written when he was at his prime, before he stuffed it all up.
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question, since there are imbalances because of one position constantly, could it be suggested that there be a dumbbell workout to even things out, I am still talking about big moves. ie DB bench press, rows, pull over, single leg squats, single leg hypers, etc…things of that nature in the rep range of 6? Thoughts.
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I only posted this because me and my dad went to the driving range for fun and I am into the golfing now.
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And I was wondering what a good driving distance is? I hit it over 280 my second day out.
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Dont yell at me, because I have constantly been in my basement working on chipping and using the irons with good form, getting back spin, and aiming at the crack between the doors, as well putting on the carpet, to try and work on my short game til i can get out to the course. I’ll be playing a round on wed. and will post how i do so i can get some tips.
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Did anyone watch the Buick. J.D. brings the club sooo far back, and I like Tigers swing, he brings it as far as he can while keeping his control hand square and his arm straight. A pity he missed a few of those birdies, or he would have won. I like Tiger and J.D. the most though.
By all means
- And I was wondering what a good driving distance is? I hit it over 280 my second day out.
That is good but don’t get overly focussed on distance you can’t score from the trees 
- Dont yell at me, because I have constantly been in my basement working on chipping and using the irons with good form, getting back spin, and aiming at the crack between the doors, as well putting on the carpet, to try and work on my short game til i can get out to the course. I’ll be playing a round on wed. and will post how i do so i can get some tips.
I won’t yell IMHO more people should spend time doing drills etc away from the course/pactice range.
- Did anyone watch the Buick. J.D. brings the club sooo far back, and I like Tigers swing, he brings it as far as he can while keeping his control hand square and his arm straight. A pity he missed a few of those birdies, or he would have won. I like Tiger and J.D. the most though.
Didn’t catch Buick but know what you are talking about. Yes Daly certainly does wind up Personally I think copying Tiger’s swing (and Adam Scott’s) is pretty difficult for the average (and even advanced) player, a lot of his swing is based around his physique and flexibility.
That said Tiger is without doubt a fave much more so than Mickelson and Singh! I hope he wins PGA
Well, I hope that practice will produce results on the course. If I shoot under 50(which I have no idea if I can, I’ve never played before) for 9 holes, I win 20 :).
I wasn’t suggesting I was trying to copy his swing, but I read in one of his tips to try and keep your arm straight and your control hand square if you have the strength. Its worked for me so far. I think as I get the technical aspect down and I actually swing with some clubhead speed I’ll be able to drive further.
So I’m on the right track, practicing putting, chipping, iron work, etc…? Would Tiger’s book be a good one to get? As well could you suggest which clubs are good one(driver, woods, irons, putter). I think the better you are the less the type of club matters, I think I like the nike ones though, they seem nice, yet affordable, unlike the nicer callaway and taylormade stuff(looked up my grandpa’s clubs to see if I could afford them, the driver costs more then a couple of sets I saw…) Thanks.
I gave some details of what I consider the best book for learning golf earlier in this thread. Others may disagree but that is my view Personally I didn’t think Tiger’s book was that good.
As for clubs, it is actually the other way round. The better you are the more it matters. As you are just starting I would see about getting a set, even a 2nd hand one, see if you can get what they call cavity back irons. They are cast and more forgiing, you shouldn’t have too much hassle as most of the clubs made are those.
You can spend mega $$$$ on golf gear and just starting out there is no need, you would be better off spending that on lessons
If you shoot under 50 for your first nine counting every swing and penalty you deserve $20
My dad has an old set, I figured the irons would be fine, but new woods and driver are needed. So are the nike clubs any good? Or I was thinking a callaway big bertha? Haha I hope I do, I’ll let you know. I will look into those books. Thanks again.
John C-S
I went to the driving range today to see how I was doing(spent most of the balls on practicing with 3 off tee and mat and 8 off mat, put most of my balls within 30 feet of the tee). I had trouble however hitting the ball of the tee with the 3 iron. I thought maybe I should swing it like a driver(i tend to try and keep my elbow close to my body and my other arm straight as possible, except i allow wrist bend, is this wrong?), but then I kept hitting it off the outside of the clubface, even when I tried to stay down on it, which when I did I would scoop under it too much. With the elbow tucked again I have the problem of getting a full swing. What do you suggest, if you can suggest anything from what I’ve written? Oh yes, hit the longest ball out there, 290+, almost to the fence:) (short driving range).