notes:
-since last post…
165 snatch (I believe a PB)
245 clean (got it up easily)
365 squat (also easily)
-less thinking=better performance. if I just envision my cues, but purely think about generating power from the ground and letting everything flow on its own, I throw, run, jump and lift better
-increasing action of rear leg on penultimate step. hitting block leg more abruptly as opposed to rotating around it
-throws with weighted ball much further than ever before
-still weighing about 160 lbs, appear to have lost some bodyfat. tend to add weight naturally as weather cools down. will make sure to concentrate on meal consistency and hydration
As Fall semester is just about over, I am soon to start up my training on the same schedule as my teammates, so I am recording a mark of my progress. Once I get up to school, then I’ll start getting some more marks and video
-weight hovering at 160-165. body fat in the low side for me. I think getting to 165-170 for season’s start is a good goal and should be attainable. assumed I’d look significantly bulkier at this weight, perhaps due to small frame and predisposition to add muscle up by joints versus being exposed in the middle of bones
-even with weight gain, ratios have not improved, but haven’t gotten worse either. strength numbers certainly the highest they’ve been. Maxes at 275 for bench and clean and 405 for squat. have encountered some upper l. hammy tightness so have been taking lower body easier lately. I believe it is due to fatigue from its use as my block leg and some massage/mobility work will help it out
-flexibility in most joints significantly improved. very noticible in all facets of mechanics. have never felt so comfortable running upright before, I’ll be very curious to see how my speed compares to my teammates
-because of weather decline, haven’t had very much throwing opportunities. have still done some footwork drills, and earlier on weighted ball throws. at least in some ghost run throughs using a wooden pole in place of jav, I feel very comfortable and loose and can’t wait to see if with the added mobility i can hit the positions I need to to let it fly like I can do with a ball. with the 800g knocken ball, hip/shoulder separation, fast approach, relaxation, hard block and whip like arm action all are accomplished
-a few supplement changes. mostly snac stuff: the snac pack, physiobalm (which i LOVE), proglycosyn, zma nightcap, hypoxygen, multivit. only take the physiobalm, zma and multivit consistently but have found use for the others and all are definitely helpful
-health/fatigue issues much much better. sleep significantly reduced (~5.5 - 6 hours per night), but situation keeps getting better and better and i have been taking less and less stuff
Goals for when I go back for this Spring:
-185 ft jav throw first meet, 60m throw reach goal
-maintain body weight between 160-170 lbs
-increased concentration on flexibility
Strength is important, having said that, the application of forces is crucial, in other words what are you doing with the strength which is available to you and how efficiently and effectively converting into the power.
How your power tests are looking like, talking here about:
4 kg shot, over-head forward
4 kg shot, over-head backwards
4 kg shot, under-head forward
standing long jump
standing long skipping
3 & 5 double-leg hops
Other related tests
back pull-over
one arm standing throw with 2-3kg ball.
I don’t have many testing numbers other than weights, primarily because of available facilities. If I were at school this fall my broad, vert, 30m and overhead throw would’ve also been tested
and, personally, I feel like I simply didn’t appreciate fully the idea of each athlete having there own specific needs as far as fitness capabilities. it looks like for me average flexibility was not sufficient for weight lifting, sprinting or throwing at my best. That said, coming from a sprinter background and knowing arm speed won’t be an issue (baseball throwing velocity probably still is my strongest athletic ability), I would say my three main goals were added mass, injury prevention and increased flexibility. strength increases were simply “side effects” from those three goals, focus on actually lifting heavier weights has definitely subsided throughout the Fall as I continue to see strength increases through other means, experience reduced soreness and have more for other training aspects
If I ever get back into sprinting specifically, or if I get to the point where I need to increase approach speed, then I’ll be more concerned with power application further up on the force-time curve. as I grow older I seem to believe in more and more of simply bringing weaknesses to par then making the most of your natural strengths; however, I think I am still in the brining my weaknesses to par stage for javelin but once flexibility and mass are at the minimum I’d like them to be at (at 5’7" and starting weight of 142 I definitely need to make the most out of ROM and every pound my frame can carry to compete with kids mostly in the 6’-6’4" 185-200 lbs range, full body mechanics were huge for me in baseball for throwing as hard as much larger kids), I’d definitely want to make the most of the general “explosiveness” advantage I have over many of the other throwers. for now, I think I will see the most long term progress (and short term improvement) concentrating on aspects that will allow me to use proper mechanics (increased ROM and corresponding strength increases to support it), then I’ll worry about efficient application of force
if I had to guess at some testing numbers to compare to past ones, I’d say vert is somewhere 36-40 in, broad ~10 ft, 30m standing ~3.7-3.8h, 30m fly no idea, 500m probably would die. no comparison to most of the tests you named above so guessing in the wind is useless. perhaps I will test a few of those for a pre-season gauge for future comparison when I return to campus in January. either way, definitely most powerful I’ve felt before and wouldn’t be surprised if I’m at my fastest even with the total lack of any real tempo or conditioning, but I think heavier weighted ball throws I’d probably be quite weak in, single leg jumps fairly strong and very strong in double leg jumps. weight numbers compared to others will likely be mediocre, but compared to my bw are a strong suit
by chance, workout on Wednesday included medball throws and a few sprints.
definitely got tired from the sprints, though first few felt good
medball throws definitely much much improved. however, I believe this to be due more to flexibility increases and an established habit of using legs to power the core (and then arms whip through) than any specific “power” potential increases in individual muscle contractions… not that cns, coordination and muscle sequencing isn’t part of power development just it all resulted from technique, hypertrophy and flexibility work as opposed to specific power devel training so I assume the adaptations are a bit different
You cannot wait with efficient force application until you got stronger, those two (strength and force application) should be develop at the same time.
Your bench, clean, squat are good enough to throw 70m.
Force application!!! and correct technique
This is what matters, that’s only my opinion.
I hear you, it’s similar in concept to how I’m now saying I can’t believe how much I ended up limiting my speed by not increasing flexibility because I thought what I had was sufficient to begin with.
on the other end, I guess I have been viewing my training more linearly because I’ve started the new event and I feel I missed much of the base I personally needed for sprinting. I agree for a 6ft 185lbs person, my strength numbers are plenty to throw 70m. for someone 5’7" 160lbs, ehh, enough to throw 60m for sure, but everything else would have to be pristine to hit 70m with limited lever length and momentum transfer potential
mass > range of motion > strength > force production > speed
When the things before each factor are not in place, I believe that is when plateauing (at least for me) occurs because there is an outside limiting factor preventing improvement in whatever is being trained specifically. In deficiencies in:
mass:
-range of motion would end up becoming structural weakness relatively quickly
-strength limited by not enough weight to hit truly high numbers
-force production hampered by improper proportions
-speed lower because of body composition
range of motion:
-strength expressed over too short a distance/necessary positions difficult to hit
-force production inefficient with muscle tightness at high forces
-speed lower because of improper contraction sequencing
strength:
-force production limited by muscle/tendon tensile strength
-speed slowed by deficient stability
force production:
-speed cannot occur without sufficient force
That said, everyone has different levels necessary for each of these things, and when part is ignored (your fear with force production for me) then anything past it is at risk, even if one thinks the amount is enough.
my frame can still afford significantly more mass, but it is sufficient, so I’ve moved on for now. my flexibility might be there, but I have trouble knowing when I don’t currently have the facilities to complete full throws. my strength seems set, but I do believe letting my numbers drop below 1.5xbw bench, 1.7xclean, 2.5x squat would be a mistake. force production and speed? too little work to really know, but not too worried because they will be touched on in sequence. suppose it is wise just to boost up the first three for my return to school so I can have my coach handle the technicalities of force and speed (of throw and run-up/crossovers)
if I’ve waited too long, I have 3 years. and if I can’t throw 185ft somehow, I don’t think force training or speed work/more throwing is why
haven’t posted in a while, been very busy with starting up with classes again, practice and applying for internship opportunities.
since being back at school, I got my hands on a pair of javelin boots, have been cleared for competition and added to the official outdoor roster.
mobility is still doing well, the difference is very obvious in just about every facet of training. while being one of the more flexible members of the team, I think this may be an example of general fitness being a personal thing as I think if early on in my athletics career I had put a larger emphasis on flexibility in my training it would’ve been extremely beneficial
dropped a few pounds, likely because of diet inconsistencies. I am working this out as I readjust to a student life style and have coordianted with the nutritionist. I’d like to hit the season at a weight where I never measure below 165 lbs. most of weight loss appears to be bodyfat, however, so I am not overly concerned
strength levels still doing well, but a nagging upper hamstring/lower glute tightness (likely caused by occassional technical concerns with my “block” leg while throwing) has caused me to be cautious with posterior chain heavy lifts. lookin at a mid low 400s squat, mid upper 200s clean and low 200s snatch. no idea where my bench is at since I rarely do them
significant amount of medball work is being done. still going through somewhat of a learning curve as far as the motor patters for the exercises we do, but feeling mobile and explosive. getting better and better at applying high force while relaxed. I’ve also found my ability to not overthink and to see mechanical improvements by cueing and visualization as opposed to forcing is much stronger. perhaps another effect of having ROM and strength levels to naturally hit positions
lateral speed greatly improving, along with javelin footwork in general. I believe this is due to having a track surface to work on, coach’s to observe and correct and mobility increases. I plan to try and take advantage of a very fast approach
arm speed definiely up. still working at getting more from my hips as opposed to “punching” into the block and launching from my shoulder
flight of javelin looks miles improved and from a 3 step I’ve been hitting from the 170’s to 180’s from a 3 step. my initial goal, 185 ft, should be no problem whatsoever
when I start with longer or full approaches in throwing sessions, or maybe catch some video of plyo or speed work or maybe lifts, i’ll post some for archiving purposes
quick update, no vids or anything very interesting, but a couple marks I thought I’d jot down:
mock meet (~0* celsius):
first throw - 173 ft
best throw (of 6) - 176 ft
goals:
-185 ft first meet
-hit ic4a qualifier at 58.70 m (justr gotta add 5m…)
-crack 60m
bodyweight - 155-160
squat looking heavier than ever, clean and upper body strength may have dropped a bit but unsure
need to improve sleep and diet schedule, should be easier for me to do in-season because of that added motivation
working on lengthening and smoothing out approach (currently three “hops” counting by lefts, then an accelerating 7-step). goal would be a 5 step (lefts) build up into a 7 step maintenance
need back leg to be more active to get my block leg down faster. big toe injury has made my block a bit hesistant and I end up using my back foot to break instead of help positioning and accelerate
Haven’t been on here in a long time because I’ve been super busy.
It’s possible that I will not be throwing competitively (at least for my school) until Spring 2015 because of co-op conflict. that said, now I have a season of jav under my sleeve, and I know what to expect for my senior year and have a long time to get ready for it!
ended the season with a ~180 ft throw being my best. definitely burned out as the season went on. probably was too conservative with my out of season workout volume, plus I let mechanical stuff get in my head.
running speed seemed much faster than ever before as my leg stiffness at ground strike seems to have improved much (and therefore that elastic response), as well as my ability to relax and “float” (or sprint “over” the ground as opposed to on it).
additional arm flexibility will be important. coaches were pushing pretty hard for me to throw very over the top (which I’m okay at since I was an OF in baseball), but I throw much harder from an even shouldered, low 3/4’s release and I will be implementing this moreso into my javelin throw (a lot of smaller jav throwers seem to resort to fast approach and very rotational mechanics in order to make up for lack of size to put into block)
lost a bunch of weight during the season. back to school adjustments. workload much lighter this summer so I should gain most of it back readily.
waiting on my coach to send out the summer workouts, but lately I’ve just been doing some maintenance work (2x6 power clean, bench, squat 3 times a week, “beach” lifts 2 times a week, some sort of throwing (weighted balls, baseball, football, some jav) a couple times a week, too). will be more active on my journal since it’s the summer, again, most likely, though since it’s not my program I’m doing I’ll have to cut the specifics of lifts or conditioning once it starts
took a few weeks off/light since the season ended, raring to get going again
started up team lifting program again. feels good to be lifting hard again. nice to see immediate gains too
fixed mechnics moving into my block. stabilizign c ore much moreeffectivly and minimizing braking fdorces before the block by adding some rearwards action to my penultimate foot plant. threw a personal best just fooling around at a cautious approach the other day
tb2010
Mobility is extremely important, you won’t be able to progress unless certain range of movement in the joints is obtained to allow you to maximise your performance, the same principle apply to all events/ sports.
re: throwing over the top, what’s that? as long as your elbow coming around shoulder level and you are not dropping it while throwing you are reasonably safe.
re: smaller javelin throwers and their run-up, javelin run-up needs to be optimal, comfortable that’s it!!!, run-up which allows you to perform smooth transition to crossover then set you up for penultimate step then from penultimate to plant/block. Run-up should be performed in such a way that will allow you to perform as smooth throw as possible.
Rotational mechanics? are you talking about spiral technique which was used by Jan. Well things are
difficult to execute,
many javelin throwers tried and failed,
with spiral technique lots of javelins going out of sector,
if you don’t have basic technique right, you won’t get that one either.
My mate was throwing last Sunday he’s 5’8, He had a basic run-up, basic technique no some funky spiral technique you are trying to talk about and he did throw over 70m (230+).
Have been told by successful throws coaches that the feet work is most important in the throws. Sounds like your experiment with the feet gives merit to the theory.
I guess I see “over the top” as a backley type release, and in overhand throwing sports, this extreme 12 0’clock release is what coaches seem to push stubbornly for.
I’d see jan as the opposite extreme where he often had throws that were very rotational and had very little vertical deviation from start of implement motion to release
I just think that attempting to model one’s mechanics around either extreme is a bit… extreme. neither could possibly feel comfortable nor be accomplished successfully by an athlete significantly less developed or athletic than the two “prototypes.”
I’m willing to bet that my mechanical changes, if anything, brought me from overhand linear to closer to your friends technique (if you would consider his mechanics typical). I agree basics first, but in that goal I guess I am still trying to figure out how to feel comfortable since the implement is finally not so new to me and many of the mobility marks I did not originally have that limited techniques I could use I now have
tweaked something that’s pretty deep around my left oblique/lower back. can’t seem to reach it. only really notice it after throwing jav so I’ll have to throw the breaks on that a bit. saw some great improvements mechanically (primarily not breaking at the hip as much, blocking hard and speeding up the penultimate step), but I also contribute this to this minor injury. probably should have been more conservative in throw count or intensity
sterength numbers finally coming back up. body weight still pretty low (~150) but this is pretty typical for the summer for me. Ironically, I think I’m starting to notice a bit of the extremely low body fat effect as cf described bj having since at 172 he looked monstrous. Not overly worried about weight so long as everything else continues to progress, but if it means lower muscle mass it also could explain the tweak
in a typical lifting session, 135 in the snatch, 200 in the clean and 315 in the squat can all be done without too much effort. won’t be maxing for a while I believe, but hoping to be at 155 snatch, 225 clean and 365 squat for my “comfortable” level for fall lifting
Fall 2014 was very busy academically and as I was to be in absentia Spring semester my training deteriorated since I wouldn’t be competing until Spring 2016.
My Fall training ended with ~20 ft increase in throwing drills than in the past season, faster running speed, but total lack of any speed endurance. Upper hamstring/lower glute area was giving me a lot of grief
Working full-time until July (when I’ll be a full-time student again), but with Spring semester ending I am starting up a workout routine again. When a student, I’ll be on the team program, but for the next 2 months I will be training on my own so I will use this journal to document progress.
Have access to basketball courts, a weightroom (no bumper plates for oly’s), and a nearby field/park.
Will not have access to a track or javelins until back at school
Goals:
Re-establish regular weightlifting, general flexibility, and fitness-base
Tend to past lingering injuries (make sure those body parts stay pain free)
Begin event-specific work again (stretches, explosive work)
2’ bike
2x6 pc@135lbs (controlled descent)
2x6 power squat@225lbs
2x6 bench@135lbs
60s sit-ups
5 May 2015
2’ bike
2x10 upper db circuit
stretch
6 May 2015
cf bike tempo workout (just 1st set)
contrast shower
WEEK TWO
11 May 2015
400m jog
2x5 shrug, high pull, front squat@50lbs
2x5 overhead squat@40lbs
2x6 bench@135lbs
2x10 pull-ups
2x10 upper db circuit
stretch upper
12 May 2015
2’ bike
2x5 shrug, high pull, front squat@50lbs
2x5 overhead squat@50lbs
2x6 pc@135lbs (controlled descent)
2x6 power squat@225lbs
stretch lower
13 May 2015
cf bike tempo workout
Notes:
-supplements are snac
multivit in the am
physiobalm pre/post workout (sore muscles/joints)
zma before bed
-sleep 6-8hrs/night, work at desk 40hrs/week, poor college kid diet
-lingering pain in l. upper hammy/lower glute appears gone
-strength increase from week 1 to 2 very obvious. work capacity significantly lower than expected
-upper db circuit is 2x10 of
incline bench
1-arm row
tri ext
biceps curls (alt)
incline fly
lateral raise
seated row
shoulder press (alt)
bench dips
bentover raise
-significant all-over doms for week 1
-chest and lat doms and minor quad/glute doms for week 2
Approx. 8 weeks until leaving for school, plan to follow a 3-1 load-unload plan with weekly workouts something like this:
1 - off
2 - lower
pc, power squat, stretch
3 - upper
bench, pull-ups, db circuit, stretch
4 - fitness, javelin rom drills
5 - lower
snatch, front squat, stretch
6 - upper
pull-overs, shoulder stability exercises, db circuit, stretch
7 - fitness, javelin rom drills
fitness would consist of cardio, medball, bw exercise, and/or recreational athletics
stretching would focus on muscles the workout hit
leaning towards a 2x10-3x8-4x6-2x6 (unload) set/rep scheme for major lifts
contrast showers and icing will be used as needed