Frans Bosch

yeah, they are good, mid level Tradesman power tools :slight_smile:

They do, but not anywhere near as much as ensuring the hip flexors and thighs are NOT knotted up and have proper full range of motion and the Hip flexors are Strong also.

Once that is in place, then yes, look to the Abs.

For an awesome view of this, look no further than Usain

Do you guys know of the power clean variation Frans was speaking about to develop reflex etc?

I’ve seen different ones. I don’t like any of them. Specificity is not what you should be looking for in the gym as Charlie explained on numerous occasions. The high incidence of injuries in Bosch’ group also illustrates it perfectly. If you want to get a rough idea of his gym work have a look here on the website that I cited earlier in this thread. I’m not saying that it’s all useless work or dangerous but I question the need for it and the risk/benefit ratio. The exercise you’re looking for is not shown on that website BTW.

Do not know about the injury claim. All anecdotical and so no proof. I know coaches who did those variation and never had any problem with it.
Interesting idea that being specific should not count in the gym. Why are the most important mechanisms of adaptation not valid in the gym? Does not make any sense to me.

Well his athletes (e.g. de Leeuw, Pennings) said they were injured and did not compete. What more proof do you need? An X-ray of their damaged achilles tendons?

If Charlie’s view on specificity of gym work does not make sense to you you should download his strength DVDs. I presume you joined this board to learn from his methods.

Indeed I need more proof. If you know athletics a bit, you would know that many athletes always get injured because they just are not robust enough and other can handle anything. So I need more proof, that a certain training method even brakes robust athletes. Anecdotes are just not good enough.(Gary Winckler reports good experiences with this approach to training; an other anecdote that is not good enough to be scientific proof?).
Charlie’s on the point of being specific does not make sense to me. Maybe you can explain.

a pull or power clean in kneeling positizion is one of the worst thing you can do in practice!

The only training specific to the event is the event itself! All other activities in training are general in nature.

Searching for specificity in the weight room is a very bad idea as the movement velocities and power output will be negligible in relation to what occurs out on the track. Not to mention the competing CNS resources - the closer the nature of the activities become to the primary goal (in this case speed) the greater the risk of fatigue and injury.

Hope that helps!

Searching for specificity in the weight room is a very bad idea as the movement velocities and power output will be negligible in relation to what occurs out on the track.

That would mean, you better do no weight training at all. Because it is completely non specific there can be no transfer, so no benefit. I think, though your remark is very valuable, maybe there is more to it.
Other option; Speed and power output are only minor aspects of specificity. There are other aspects, that make sense in the weight room (very much the take of the functional training idea (Gambetta etc.). Why are these people wrong??

Listen to Bosch for a greater understanding of sprint mechanics but leave how to change those mechanics to other people - e.g. CF, for many of the reasons given above.

I didn’t say anyone was wrong in their views - only that others I believe are more correct.

I also did not say the weight room would not benefit an athletes training - what I did say is it would have a general effect and not a specific effect.

Bosch is currently involved with the England Rugby Union team. He is also involved/will be involved with other clubs/nations around the UK apparently.

They videoed the players sprinting, but not sure if during practice or during sprint training. He seen the players one on one.

Here’s what I was told (paraphrased of course):
“He said that I when I ran I had no front engine and I ran with a rear engine. He showed me exercises to do (which where high knees into sprints, holding a stick above the head and sprint, and leaning against a wall and doing knee drives) to improve my front engine. He also said that my rear heel remained on the floor when he said I should be on the ball of my foot. He said to do bounds to fix that.”

So I asked him how Bosch said to implement these exercises in terms of dosage, duration and integration into the weekly training with club or country.

“He never said.”

In other words, a complete waste of time. He said that there was no discussion of how the changes would be implemented or how progress would be monitored or if he would come back and re-evaluate, etc.

He just listed a bunch of exercises and that was it.

@nap; specific effect and general effect. Sounds old school. If general training does not have specificity it does not contribute to what you want to improve
@mighty; 3th hand info. Do you also have first hand info?

No. Friend seen him lecture last year, which was recorded, been waiting ever since for the DVD.

He also commented on some aspect of the movement of the trunk/pelvis that exists in sprinters, but not in rugby players. His advice was single leg exercises.

Some sprint training might be an idea.

When you come up with an exercise that duplicates the outputs of sprints and its intricacies let us know!

Otherwise, you are developing supporting qualities that assist in pushing the speed barrier forward in general way.

@Nap Thanks, now I get your terminology. Your general and my specific can be the same.
@ Mighty, There are also interesting presentations on

Yes exactly, there are a lot of poor choices that can be made when your goal is one thing and you get diverted into another direction. Alway keep your end goal in mind SPEED - POWER!

True! I said that to a friend of mine who wants to research biomechanics of running/sprinting so he can develop new aids in improving speed… Biomechanics and coaching are not the same

From what I see and read (new literature on motor control) we still know very little on the effects of training on adaptations. So to claim that we can dismiss a certain model of thinking because one model (e.g. CF) has proven to be the right one is very silly to me. All is still completely open to debate. Many ways to skin the cat and no way proven to be the best.
Interesting quotes from a Bosch presentation;“Speed is nonexistent” and “Strength is nonexistent either”.